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  • Wiskey

    A Couple of suggestions

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    Uncle Toby    66
    20 hours ago, Randall said:

     "I'm just saying if there's no benefit to it why would they?"

    "Why not do all the cool things that SRT was made to do?"

    SRT is always required to be there if GD requires help, regardless if their "job" may be to go kill rebels and stuff. Most of the time by the time that we gear up, fly to Cap points or random air drops, GD have lost control of Sydney, and we are required to go back. Not only that but by the time that we do get around to getting into combat, GD no longer is meeting the requirements for us to go out on OPS. So saying stuff like "Why not do all the cool things that SRT was made to do?" it is kind of hard...

    "1.3 SRT Officers are always required to prioritize General Duties at all times"
    "4.1 Before conducting operations SRT Officers are required to ensure that a minimum of 6 whitelisted General Duties Officers and a Sergeant or above are present."

    Edited by Uncle Toby
    Jesus told me to

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  • Randall    55
    1 hour ago, Uncle Toby said:

    SRT is always required to be there if GD requires help, regardless if their "job" may be to go kill rebels and stuff. Most of the time by the time that we gear up, fly to Cap points or random air drops, GD have lost control of Sydney, and we are required to go back. Not only that but by the time that we do get around to getting into combat, GD no longer is meeting the requirements for us to go out on OPS. So saying stuff like "Why not do all the cool things that SRT was made to do?" it is kind of hard...

    "1.3 SRT Officers are always required to prioritize General Duties at all times"
    "4.1 Before conducting operations SRT Officers are required to ensure that a minimum of 6 whitelisted General Duties Officers and a Sergeant or above are present."

    I think i've made my point clear and we're just about going in circles, i'm not saying anyone is breaking protocols. I'm simply stating a visible divide between some divisional officers and the police force as a whole which is exacerbated by the way divisions are setup.

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    Uncle Toby    66
    8 minutes ago, Randall said:

    "divide between some divisional officers and the police force as a whole"

    That is why they are called divisions...

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    57 minutes ago, Randall said:

    I think i've made my point clear and we're just about going in circles, i'm not saying anyone is breaking protocols. I'm simply stating a visible divide between some divisional officers and the police force as a whole which is exacerbated by the way divisions are setup.

    SRT doesn't need to be there 24/7 to hold GD's hand. We aren't always on ops and a lot of the times we can't go on ops for reasons such as not enough GD being on, or GD is losing control over Sydney, as Toby stated. "I'm simply stating a visible divide between some divisional officers and the police force as a whole which is exacerbated by the way divisions are setup" -  as for this statement, we are called divisions for a reason. We are a separate branch of the APD that deals with shit GD aren't equipped to do. SRT officers are on GD when they need to be, I don't see any issue there. 

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    Mbolt5    37

    There's a divide because Divisions is the officers main posting/Main job/main focus, GD isn't............

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    .Sean    29

    Wtf is this post? and GD is complaining about SRT doing ops?

    I didn't read the whole post so...

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    .Sean    29

    I mean if you want to complain about SRT not doing GD then let rebel get in city so SRT don't have to go do ops since Sydney got rebel to take care off.

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    Armando Wolff    159

    Why do you retards always bring a suggestion off topic, you're just giving them an excuse to lock this and forget about it.

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    Wiskey    14

    Got some more rule grey zones, also if you wanna argue SRT vs GD then please take it elsewhere. 

    Affected Rules:

    2.6 Any actions that are done with the intention of interrupting or interfering with role-play or the actions of other people is trolling and fail role-play.

     

    2.6.1 Don’t be a dick. (Don't do anything which could be seen as purposely annoying or interfering with the Roleplay of others. Things like baiting police, destroying vehicles and targeting certain people).

     

    Suggested Fix: 

    Targeting needs a definition, along with guidelines of what is interrupting role play. Eg when someone robs me they are interfering with my RP. 

     

    I’ll highlight a situation that tested these rules.

    yesterday a gang mate of mines house was going to be broken into, he bought insurance before they actually decced or started bolt cutting so nothing got taken and they verbally decced on him, he told me who did it shortly before he died. I contacted another person for the guys house location and got it. Unfortunately it was insured. About an hour later we saw that he was imprisoned so we went to jail and he talked to us so we were pretty confident it was him. We robbed him for his house keys but he said he didn’t have the one for the specific house we were after, in a attempt to continue roleplay I asked him for the location spare key or any other way of getting inside. He didn’t work with us so he was killed. We were taken to HD and banned for a day (bans were reversed 5 minutes later) for interfering with RP and targeting. 

     

    This has brought a couple of questions up for discussion such as:

    is it still targeting if you have a RP reason, you haven’t died and you have only done it once? 

    is It valid RP to claim that you don’t have any keys despite you giving one?

    Can you RP your way out of actual facts if only one party is going this way with the RP? 

    these questions have big implications as from  what I was told in the HD channel I could literally RP out a MK200 as a toy gun, and if someone disagreed take them up to HD and have them banned. 

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    JdawgZ    174
    On 5/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, Wiskey said:

    Got some more rule grey zones, also if you wanna argue SRT vs GD then please take it elsewhere. 

    Affected Rules:

    2.6 Any actions that are done with the intention of interrupting or interfering with role-play or the actions of other people is trolling and fail role-play.

     

    2.6.1 Don’t be a dick. (Don't do anything which could be seen as purposely annoying or interfering with the Roleplay of others. Things like baiting police, destroying vehicles and targeting certain people).

     

    Suggested Fix: 

    Targeting needs a definition, along with guidelines of what is interrupting role play. Eg when someone robs me they are interfering with my RP. 

     

    I’ll highlight a situation that tested these rules.

    yesterday a gang mate of mines house was going to be broken into, he bought insurance before they actually decced or started bolt cutting so nothing got taken and they verbally decced on him, he told me who did it shortly before he died. I contacted another person for the guys house location and got it. Unfortunately it was insured. About an hour later we saw that he was imprisoned so we went to jail and he talked to us so we were pretty confident it was him. We robbed him for his house keys but he said he didn’t have the one for the specific house we were after, in a attempt to continue roleplay I asked him for the location spare key or any other way of getting inside. He didn’t work with us so he was killed. We were taken to HD and banned for a day (bans were reversed 5 minutes later) for interfering with RP and targeting. 

     

    This has brought a couple of questions up for discussion such as:

    is it still targeting if you have a RP reason, you haven’t died and you have only done it once? 

    is It valid RP to claim that you don’t have any keys despite you giving one?

    Can you RP your way out of actual facts if only one party is going this way with the RP? 

    these questions have big implications as from  what I was told in the HD channel I could literally RP out a MK200 as a toy gun, and if someone disagreed take them up to HD and have them banned. 

    I would ask - how did you know he was in jail? did you actually see him in there, did he give you his name or did you see it above his head or did you just see the arrest log at the bottom of the screen? What if he had died in that hour between your dec and his prison sentence, how do you know he is the same person?

    if your chasing a specific individual post dec to get revenge, you can appreciate how some might think that's targetting. i imagine there was some shit talking in side chat? possible even asking all civs if they had info on a specific person?

    on the turning up to prison part - if he is stuck in prison and you rock up fully armed demanding he turn over his house keys under the pretences of "give me your keys or your breaching VLR" (whether you actually said that or not wouldnt matter, he is stuck in prison - its like the rebels that go and steal the kidneys of prisoners, yea its funny, but if they are in there for 20 mins, but die from kidney loss in 15 then they respawn with a restarted timer, then the victim is gonna feel like you are a dick etc) but in prison, were he never had a chance to run or defend himself sounds like a bit of a dick move to me... (different if you caught him at his house and captured him outside of prison, but if he is in prison he can easily argue RP that the prison guards took his keys off him, you then killed him anyway resetting his prison sentence... from the outside looking in, your buddy was killed, an hour later your still steaming about the earlier dec, you targetted him/tracked him down, didnt get your way with the keys, killed him and reset his prison sentence - again you can appreciate how some one from the outside looking would see this). - im gonna assume you did actually send a verbal declaration or text declaration before trying to get keys off him lol..

    again, people will read and think very differently to what i have written above - im giving you my perspective. I personally feel 2.6 would be a weak issue here as he wasnt specifically doing RP other than waiting out a prison sentence. Would have been less of an issue if you broke him out of prison as a prison snatch (then your back into a new RP - sounds better then breaking in, give me your keys, no?, bang your dead, leave)

    Rule 2.6.1 - if you asked me if this was a dick move/targetting a player, now I personally was not there to see what you guys said or did with the prisoner, i can only make assumptions but from my perspective without all the facts yet, it looks like you were targetting but id need more evidence (e.g. side chat logs etc)

    There is a level of common sense that should be applied to the rules otherwise the Altis Life rules would be 10 pages long and we'd all be in HD everyday for every little fiddly thing and no one would ever know them all.

    An example of interfering with RP would be the likes some of the following scenarios (i say some, these are not the only scenarios obviously)

    - a hostage negotiation where a random civ/rebel comes up and just kills the hostage

    - Rebels third partying a bank, killing the bank robbers

    - rebels capture a rival rebel and a different rival team kills them to avoid hostage RP

    - Combat logging/Combat insuring a house, logging off to stop a house robbery

    Again, just my thoughts, but hope it helps :seemsgood:

     

     

     

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    Wiskey    14
    1 hour ago, JdawgZ said:

    if your chasing a specific individual post dec to get revenge, you can appreciate how some might think that's targetting. 

    There is a level of common sense that should be applied to the rules otherwise the Altis Life rules would be 10 pages long and we'd all be in HD everyday for every little fiddly thing and no one would ever know them all.

    Gonna respond to these two points alone and do a general summary (not to say that you didn’t have other points, just that  I don’t want to hog the discussion with one scenario)

    - Yes we saw that he was arrested through the notification. It’s a grey zone in the rules to see if we are allowed to do that 

    - There was no shit talking in side from either side as in my memory ( I will amend this if someone disagrees) 

    - We did dec prior and we gave him multiple RP routes to let us into the house, e.g “give me the location of the spare key” or “give me a way to get into the house” 

     

    It is my belief that if you live through a dec, it is perfectly valid RP to hunt down the person that attempted to kill you/ killed your mates. I think it’s targeting if you die and continue the Feud because at that point your just being a dick. E.G is it targeting if you get arrested by a cop then later look for them in SYD and take them hostage is it targeting? 

     

    A level of common sense is applied, it’s mod discretion. Senior staff have been quite lazy (imo) with the rule updates and large exploits in the rules are still not fixed.

    Another point -  Severe double standards in staff has led to many issues with straya administration. I’m not staff on straya and I don’t know the internal protocols but a good fix would be a document with the rules on it and staff could comment on it with the given interpretation of the rules to insure a consistent message coming from staff: 

     

    I’ll give an example of this:

    I was playing pubbie yesterday and I saw some horrible RP from cops, and even exploiting. I took the cop up, he had impounded a police heli that had exploded after ramming (on purpose to my understanding)  a Civ heli in PD safezone, I was told that as it was a glitch he was in the right to exploit it - apparently it “saved time”  and I would get comped if my heli blew up in safezone. To test this theory I hopped on civ and decided to invert a hummingbird 10m off the ground at cartel 1. As you can guess, the mod handling my Comp request said: “I have denied your request as you have intentionally crashed and blown up your helicopter on purpose at no fault of the server.” Myself and the cop did the exact same thing - just I was on civ and he was cop, and he got to keep the heli because cops can exploit and keep exploded vehicles of theirs. 

    Im pretty sure that most people who play civ can relate to the experience that I have just described, it’s honestly tiring how every time you go up with a case against a cop you end up with nothing 

    Edited by Wiskey
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    JdawgZ    174
    1 hour ago, Wiskey said:

    Gonna respond to these two points alone and do a general summary (not to say that you didn’t have other points, just that  I don’t want to hog the discussion with one scenario)

    - Yes we saw that he was arrested through the notification. It’s a grey zone in the rules to see if we are allowed to do that 

    - There was no shit talking in side from either side as in my memory ( I will amend this if someone disagrees) 

    - We did dec prior and we gave him multiple RP routes to let us into the house, e.g “give me the location of the spare key” or “give me a way to get into the house” 

     

    It is my belief that if you live through a dec, it is perfectly valid RP to hunt down the person that attempted to kill you/ killed your mates. I think it’s targeting if you die and continue the Feud because at that point your just being a dick. E.G is it targeting if you get arrested by a cop then later look for them in SYD and take them hostage is it targeting? 

     

    A level of common sense is applied, it’s mod discretion. Senior staff have been quite lazy (imo) with the rule updates and large exploits in the rules are still not fixed.

    Another point -  Severe double standards in staff has led to many issues with straya administration. I’m not staff on straya and I don’t know the internal protocols but a good fix would be a document with the rules on it and staff could comment on it with the given interpretation of the rules to insure a consistent message coming from staff: 

     

    I’ll give an example of this:

    I was playing pubbie yesterday and I saw some horrible RP from cops, and even exploiting. I took the cop up, he had impounded a police heli that had exploded after ramming (on purpose to my understanding)  a Civ heli in PD safezone, I was told that as it was a glitch he was in the right to exploit it - apparently it “saved time”  and I would get comped if my heli blew up in safezone. To test this theory I hopped on civ and decided to invert a hummingbird 10m off the ground at cartel 1. As you can guess, the mod handling my Comp request said: “I have denied your request as you have intentionally crashed and blown up your helicopter on purpose at no fault of the server.” Myself and the cop did the exact same thing - just I was on civ and he was cop, and he got to keep the heli because cops can exploit and keep exploded vehicles of theirs. 

    Im pretty sure that most people who play civ can relate to the experience that I have just described, it’s honestly tiring how every time you go up with a case against a cop you end up with nothing 

    Fair enough on your response 🙂 like i said i was just giving my perspective without seeing any evidence and how a person could feel targetted after an hour when they are in prison.

    for the rules - there is a shared doc that we work on collectively between staff and management - often any rule that is changed or put in will result in some one finding a grey spot and trying to use it hence discretion is required. If you ever feel a decision was unfair you can request a review/appeal (as it sounds like you did).

    for your example of the impound, it is an interesting one that i havent seen raised before - if you have evidence of the cop heli being purposely crashed then id be interested to have a look at it so it can be discussed at a senior/management level. Generally in my own experience i have seen civs/rebels ask cops to impound their vehicle when it blows up in sydney and most of the time they do, impounding your own vehicle costs you your own money so most cops generally dont like doing it. I hear alot of mods get asked to impound vehicles as well to save people time and money (e.g. they get their helis/planes stuck etc). but yea, if you have a video of a purposeful crash/impound then im keen to have a look.

    as for your comp request, the comp system in my experience is there for when bad things happen to you that either are a result of a rule breach against you (e.g. RDM or VDM) where it wasnt your fault or fair that you lost your stuff, or a server issue resulted in the loss (a big example is people flying a heli then getting battle eye kicked resulting in their heli nose diving and going boom or driving over a hill touching a tree and suddenly being launched to the moon). If you have submitted a ticket with evidence of your deliberately inverting a heli and crashing it... to be fair, i wouldnt be surprised if it got denied as this goes against what the comp system is for. I have denied cop comp requests for similar (one example was 2 cops crashing qilins into each other and blowing up), if its not rule breach/server issue relating they will generally get denied.

     

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    Nuu Rushean    223

    What’s the point of having a role play server with rebels and the ability to rob people if it’s then against the rules to have a vendetta against them and try get revenge by robbing them back or killing them etc.

     

    as for cops impounding there vehicles. Unless the heli crashes to a bug or something out of their control they shouldn’t get it back, i have had several comp requests get denied where me dying/crashing wasn’t intentional and sometimes due to a bug but mods decided that it could have been prevented by not unflipping a vehicle or not jumping down a hatch etc.

    Even if the crash is due to a bug, it isn’t the cops responsibility to determine whether or not they should get their own heli back, that is up to a staff member who deals with the comp request they are supposed to put in.

    btw sorry for typos and shit I’m on my phone

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    Rhys Beckett    437
    On 4/7/2019 at 1:35 PM, Uncle Toby said:

    Really like the civ events idea, not sure about the whole Sydney cop thing because Sydney is the main city, and the whole idea around it that is ment to be the highest police presence but otherwise.

    1+ To Civ Events.
    1+ Striders

    thats why this server is gae, cops should be patrolling everywhere, itd make it better

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    Rhys Beckett    437

    the cop to civ ratio used to be balanced, it used to be the more civ get on the more cop slots unlocked, this would be good for the server again otherwise gangs and civ just get zerged on here nowadays

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