Tungsten

So after having a play with the Dynamic Loadouts, as disappointing as it is we cant just overload the CAS with GBUs im going to put my support behind differentiating the Wipeout and Neo by making the Wipeout the Bomb orientated CAS and the Neo the Rocket CAS, i already have a interesting (and perfectly balanced) loadout for it:

Sahr-3, Tratnyr HE x2, Tratnyr AP x2, Skyfires x2, 2x LOM 250G: this gives it 2 Rockets per trigger pull for the Tratnyrs and the Skyfires let you let off a small rocket burst without the downtime of the Tratnyrs for better area saturation and accuracy

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@Fitz @InfamousNova what do you think?

already working on something

So just read the new OPREP explaining the sensor changes, might be worth looking into the current usage of UAVs since they have added infantry tracking, might give them a more Intel gathering centric role, focusing more on Darters and Falcons then Grey hawks and Sentinels, especially with the data link feature, i might also have to do a review on the FSG changes i put forward, this might have gave me a more noticeable and interesting change for FSG.

@Fitz @InfamousNova

 Just had a few ideas that could go either way after watching a few videos from the Dev Build:

Let the CAS and AA Jets have a Sniper/Spotter kind of relationship EG: Infantry Calls in a Target, AA Jet gets eyes and feeds info on the target back to the CAS jet, CAS rolls in and does what it usually does.

At the same time, we could possibly reduce the active Greyhawk UAV's to just 1 rather then having 2, that way the UAV Op can focus less on the Greyhawks and more on the other UAV's due to the Targeting pods doing a similar job.

Also @Fitz, watching these videos gives merit to the idea of the Carrier as auxiliary airbase, the new Nato Jet and UCAV are carrier landing capable and from what i could see, more then enough space on the deck for Helos

Probably wont go inside the actual bay due to the increased load it would put on the server and on peoples clients, especially if the AO spawns next to the main base

@FitzThe only place i can think of it being helpful though is the entrance of Pyrgos gulf between Skopos and Selakano and around Negades bay if its an actual Aircraft Carrier, since their are no easily accessible airstrips in those areas for jets, but if its a Helicopter Carrier or an Amphibious Assault Ship then there will be more options

maybe as a FOB or Auxiliary Airbase for VTOL/STOL Aircraft if it does not cause many issues.

I'm also hoping that's the case with the loadouts, also hoping that add more weapons to use with different types of guidance, Laser guided Missiles or GPS guided bombs would be great on I&A

I know there is already a similar thread, but i want this to go in a different direction

So as the Jets DLC gets closer, we have seen whats being added a lot clearer, a F/A 181 Black Wasp II, To - 201, and A-149 Gryphon, which look like they are based of the F/A 18 Black Wasp Prototype , SU-35 and SAAB Gryphon respectively, and while they are marketed as Air Superiority, if their anything like the Jets they are based on, they will have Multi role Capabilities which is also what BI are saying, if this was a normal addition, would not change much, but since Dynamic load outs where announced

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Dynamic Vehicle Loadouts - As requested by many people in the Arma community, you can now customize your vehicle's armament. In the case of jets, this means you can choose what kind of ordnance each pylon carries. Dynamic Vehicle Loadouts is designed to be compatible with other vehicle classes in Arma 3, which also means that content creators have the option to implement this new functionality in their assets.

As you can see in the quote, this could also extend past jets to UCAVs and Helicopters, while this can expand each of these assets roles, they all have access to ATGMs, the main problem child for I&A, which means, this DLC comes as a double edged sword to the server, it can greatly expand the roles of JTAC, UAV, and Jet and Gunship CAS but also grow to be a problem.

My main Concern is with the respawning AA Jet and the UAVs, depending on how the load outs are changed, troublemakers are going to no doubt going to exploit this, especially if the ATGMs stay as IR Seeking

So Those that read the news feed on the launcher may have seen this, but in addition to sensor changes there is another noteworthy change with the upcoming jets DLC

DYNAMIC LOADOUTS

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Some of the new engine features that are being developed in anticipation of the upcoming Jets DLC are starting to surface on Dev-Branch. One of these is Dynamic Loadouts, which allows for in-game customization of a vehicle's armament, which changes the way that airplanes operate in different situations. The ability to select the loadout for each pylon was requested by our community for a long time, and we're glad to finally be able to implement this alongside Jets' new premium assets. You can find the Work-In-Progress documentation on the Community Wiki, and please let us know your feedback on the forums.

As you read it, your probably thinking the same thing i am, GOODBYE YOU USELESS ATGMS, AND HELLO MOAR BOMBS AND ROCKETS

HELLO CAP NEOPHRON

Just a further Ironing out and Clarification of Option 3 mainly, but i have not given up on my Option 4 (We all need dreams so some ironing and clarity for that too) but i cant Edit my original post so new wall of text

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As for Option 4, as i mentioned in my original post, i see this as the option that would make FSG shine the most, but it is also going to be a problem when abused.

But as for why i still support it, where as Option 3 is the more suited for I&A but as i also said in my original it could potentially cause many issues ,

Option 4 is also the backup as it more just an Add on compared to Option 3's overhaul that requires playing with common scripts to add in the feature that can potentially cause issues.

But on top of that, it gives more interaction with other roles due to the mobile nature of the FSG in this option, it requires more then just the Scorcher, it requires a team to not only operate the scorcher, but to operate the ammo HEMT or bobcat to not only resupply the artillery but also carry the gear for the static Titan AA/AT to protect the team and provide more then just Artillery support, but Direct AA and AT as well.

A happy side effect of this is being able to act as a forward supply point for any vehicles operating in the AO and the ability for FSG to more actively participate in the AO via direct means or provide the much needed support during a Defense Mission.

That said i understand that if someone decides to abuse this power it will be very messy indeed but i also see it as more viable then Option 1 and 2 as backups. but i do not expect a fully mobile scorcher to be without chains, the main thing i can think of to reduce the amount of abuse is to put it on a long respawn time much like the T100 Ironside gets and it goes without saying that the shells available to the scorcher will be similar to the option 3 loadout, everything but the clusters usable, Cluster HE is debatable but NO CLUSTER MINES

as for balancing the power of limitless artillery ammo via conventional resupply for Option 4, im still working on ideas

18 hours ago, vortex1018 said:

It won't be OP if like CAS, rules are introduced to set the ROE for FSG

Artillery already has rules on ROE similar to CAS, its just barely anyone else does the role so it gets easily forgotten that they even exist

i will admit some of the options are powerful, but FSG is an important roll yet there is a very small amount of people who will actually do it, because the general population see's it as either useless in comparison to the Wipeout and Neophron, or too much effort for too little use or effect so there need to be some appeal to it

Option 1 i had simplicity to implement and monitor in mind, but as you said, the unlimited ammo will be problematic esp if someone spams clusters which will lag out the server, that said the Time To Target might be painful but Guided and especially laser guided are pretty accurate, and it was also made leaning towards use for defense missions by use of area denial, although the extra load on the server will cause lag.

Option 2 was the same frame of mind, but with the infantry side of things in mind, these kinds of FSG set ups are my bread and butter, however available fire support is heavily influenced by the terrain and at the same time would most likely cause less interest in the roll due to higher logistical requirements

Option 3 was the option i knew would probably be the best, but also the trickiest to implement due to having to play with multiple scripts, meaning inevitable bugs, preferably  i would like the option to resupply the scorcher, but not in the traditional manor, maybe via a script similar to when supplying the FOB, and ideally have more ammo options outside of standard HE, like smoke, and the Guided and Laser Guided which are HEAT, so they can actually damage armor, but the Cluster would be nice, but the Cluster Mine shells would be too problematic. Unlimited ammo would be too powerful if it was in the traditional manor, however the amount of ammo spent fluctuates heavily depending on who is on and where the AO is. the Woodland Mountainous and Urban areas are the best example as places ammo usage would spike, but in wide open areas it would decline due to CAS being the better option because of the response time.

and to be honest Option 4 mainly Hopes and dreams in addition to effectiveness, even with the T100 Treatment it would be troublesome if someone decides to cause trouble intentionally or ignorantly, but at the same time, one of the few times you let me use the scorcher while you where on showed just how effective it was when stationed about 1 - 2km out of the AO, and people where actually calling it in often enough that i was rarely idle for more then 5 minutes, people where even choosing me over a Wipeout, but at the same time, there was real and present threats when reinforcements come in after you complete a sub objective or from enemy CAS, and it could encourage more people to take up the roll, especially when the recruitable AI are removed, because ideally the slots would be expanded to be more then just 3 people

Pretty much all of these options are made under the assumption they will be adjusted to suit the server

After much planning (and distractions) i have finally come up with a a few solid plans for a Fire Support Team rework. In its current form the FSG and artillery is both completely inferior to CAS in both effectiveness and the amount of time it takes to pack up and preposition after each AO.

Overall Aim of rework:

Making the Scorcher and Mortars a relevant fire support option for when CAS is not available or not right for the job by making the artillery more accurate and with a faster response time

Adding a new way of playing for people who prefer more active support roles while helping people who play fight in the AOs

The Removal of the immobile and ineffective Artillery at the main base opening up more space in the Sling load/Rewards area for VTOL s

That said, the aim is to make the Fire Support Team an ALTERNATIVE, not a replacement for CAS

• Option 1: Artillery battery at Base:

Removed to free up space

• Option 2: Downgrade to Man portable Fire Support:

Removed to free up Space

• Option 3: FOB based Fire Support:

This option will kill 3 birds with one stone, More space in the Sling area, Faster and more effective Fire support and giving FOBs more usefulness. When a Ammo and Box HEMMT are sent to the FOB in addition to respawning vehicles, either a immobilized Howitzer, or mortar (or both) will become available for use at the FOB. Because of the nature of FOBs and the occasional enemy attack on them, this will also give some risk to FSG outside of the "oh damn, Enemy CAS bombed the truck", but unfortunately this requires additional coding that could potentially break.

FOB based Fire Support will allow for faster and more effective fire support and giving FOBs more usefulness.

Rather then just having the artillery spawn with the FOB, the FOB needs to be Activated and Supplied before you can use the Artillery.

The idea is that when both an Ammo and Box HEMMT are sent to the FOB in addition to respawning vehicles, an immobilized Howitzer will become available for use at the FOB. Because of the nature of FOBs and the occasional enemy attack on them, this will also give some risk to FSG outside of enemy CAS but also makes logistics necessary to an extent rather then purely optional.

Ideally the Scorcher will have access to these shells:

• HE for Standard Anti Personal and Anti Structure
• Smoke to help players in trouble
• Guided for less selective or intricate Anti armor work
• Laser Guided for Precise Anti Personnel and Anti Armor work

I would like Cluster HE to be available, as it allows for Anti Personnel Area Denial, but there will be some debate needed as to the inclusion of these shells but i do recognize the potential problems that could arise with this ammo type, but i also believe they can also be useful

Cluster AT mines and Cluster AP Mines on the other hand are completely off the table, too much can go wrong with these and i personally don't see them working on I&A anyway.

In addition i would like the howitzer to be able to be resupplied, but not in the conventional way due to sheer power it would get, Rather by utilizing the FOB Supplying script or a similar script that when a Ammo HEMMT is brought to the FOB in addition to supplying ammo to the FOB supply box it gives the Artillery ammo as well.

There are several reasons for this, the main one being that the amount of ammo used can vary depending on the Terrain in the AO eg: I know from personal experience that providing CAS in places like the Nidasos woodlands and heavy urban areas like Kavala can take a large amount of time to set up a run and that sometimes the infantry need the fire support faster then you can respond to and set up that run

But at the same time, flat open places like the research facility are usually all CAS, and you might barely use any offensive ammo but lots of smoke shells

• Option 4: My Personal Favorite, Self Propelled Fire Support:

By far my preferred option, but also the problem causing child, Doing a rework similar to Ironside, giving FSG its own spawn and Asset area, Adding more slots, and with a respawning Ammo HEMMT and Scorcher (Cheeta SPAAG or MLRS are possible but debatable) that can be operated and moved like usual, this can AND WILL cause issues when people don't want to follow the rules, but will also provide the MOST EFFECTIVE fire support when done right, possibly better then CAS in most situations, the details with the Scorcher will need to be looked into, but preferably it will have access to HE, Smoke and Laser Guided. Cluster and Self Guided will need to be discussed but would greatly boost the effectiveness,  but Cluster AT and AP mines are MOST DEFINITELY up to the discretion of Admins as these WILL BE PROBLEMATIC IF CAUTION IS NOT TAKEN.

• Option 5: Command, Firesupport and Logistics Group or just C-FSG

The idea for this is to Expand the FSG role to help assist other support roles via the use of the Data link as well as providing Direct and Indirect Fire Support with emplaced weapons, in addition to the Logistics that are already intimately tied to FSG. The idea comes from the fact that a few of the potential Data link capable vehicles fall under the FSG umbrella E.G  UAVs and SPAAGs and the intimate relationship between FSG and Logistics.

This can put FSG into a more complimentary role to Air support, rather then an alternative, so C-FSG still has an influential role even if its not providing indirect fire support.

Noticeable differences in the role would be integrating UAV with FSG rather then as a go between for CAS and FSG, and giving FSG the chance to do something when there is very little calls for support.

And it also allows for Flexibility to the FSG roll itself by making certain changes:

Allowing for FSG to use Self Propelled Assets like a Cheetah can create an AA defense for Units in Transit Via ground transport or by providing RWR information to Air Assets.

Or

By putting more of an emphasis on Command and Emplaced Support, C-FSG can effectively set up in a good location near the AO and assist ground troops by creating safe zones that can be used as LZs and keep them relatively safe while also directing and assisting Air and Ground Assets

Did some playing around in the editor, the only vehicles that can utilize the Data link effectively that are available at base constantly are the Ghosthawks, Huron, Mohawk, Hellcat, Orca, Black fish, Darters, Falcons, Greyhawk's and Sentinels and the Jets.

Some of the reward vehicles are capable of it, even exceeding the easily available ones in terms of usefulness and Sensory range: The Cheetah has long range Air Radar,while the Kajiman and Blackfoot have IR, RWR and Active Radar available to them.

That said, while it does say in the Editor that any vehicle can send, receive and show there locations on the data-link, only the above listed can actually access the MFD window that shows the Data Link information.

Additionally:

The Transport Helos are limited to visual and RWR sensors

The Cheeta radar is a full 360 degree radius that detects up to 9km.

The Black-fish (all types) radar is about forward facing with 270 degree view  that detects up to 7km , with an additional 45 degree directional IR sensor controlled by the copilot that detects up to 4km.

The Blackfoot radar is in a 180 degree frontal cone that detects up to 5km, and a directional IR sensor that detects up to 3km.

The Kajiman has a radar that detects up to 5km in a 110 degree frontal cone and a directional IR sensor that detects up to 4km

10 hours ago, Zombine45 said:

A points system, whereby, players earn points by killing enemies, completing objectives, ect. Players use these points to purchase vehicles.

This could replace the side mission rewards, by giving all players involved(Or just everyone) a large sum of points they can use to purchase whatever they want. Players can transfer their points to other players so one of them can get something really good.

Starting vehicles at the base would be limited. e.g only the two slammers and the two marshalls in the car park(Keeping all the cars obviously), players need to use them, get some points, then buy a Kuma/Gorgon/T-100/Kamysh.

Obviously the more powerful vehicles would cost more points. the same system could also be used for planes (Im not very familiar by how they compare to eachother so i wont give an example) and the cars at base as well.

you just want access to T100s dont you

After the suggestion i left in another thread i toyed around with the vanilla UCAVs that Apex added and i have found something interesting, the CSAT UAV that was added has laser guided missiles, they can be guided without a lock in the same fashion as ATGMs and dagrs but the fact they cant be abused like the standard ATGMs could be a possible reason to toy with the idea of adding them in.

on the topic of the Falcon, in terms of scouting abilities it is a good upgrade to the Darter due to the speed at which it can move between AO's, but its armament of DARs needs to be considered too

I dream of being able to drive a scorcher around and use it at ranges it would ACTUALLY be useful and above all ACCURATE (to a point) or use for direct fire support, just disable the artillery computer for everyone but FSG and increase the rearming time and it could possibly be balanced enough.

Having the missile drones in would be nice if its possible to make them laser guided only cus sometimes  GBUs are just over kill or not the right tool for the job ( i think the new CSAT Fixed wing UCAV added with Apex is armed with laser guided missiles, unsure though but the field manual mentioned it)

being able to modify Jet loadouts would be nice too (a bit of a stretch, but any pilot that has flown CAS at some point has mumbles about the ATGMs under their wings that they cant use)

an even further streach: DAISY CUTTERS i mean come on with these new VTOLs it should be slightly remotely possible? right?

Sorry for the Revive after 4 months but i dont see the point in making a new topic that zombine has already covered most of.

I think the Armored aspect of the server might need a look at; either allocated slots as zombine suggested or some rules applied, cus some people either take a tank with only one person to crew all of it and basically waste a perfectly good tank by using it as a 120mm sniper rifle or take an AI crew and drive straight in and just stomp entire AO's on a scale larger then CAS can ever do due to the HUGE decline in the threat AT infantry pose to tanks (no seriously the AI are so bad at aiming alamuts that they need to be point blank to actually cause concern)

Another thing i have seen recently is people taking 2 or 3 tanks and/or APCs and all of the AI and basically crewing entire tank with AI and have it command them from a hunter or something

I noticed that the FOBs have mortar pits, but one of them, the one north of Kavala blocks shots at lower elevations when shot to the east which is hazardous to a mortar team that sets up there

Also the main issue with supplying FOBs is the medical pod, the pod only adds 4 tickets (1 per seat i think) but driving the Medical HEMMT can be just as tedious, might not be as bad with the new VTOLs if the HMMTs can be lifted