Increasing indi group slots?

[FBI 195]

In a recent wasteland patch the amount of Independents allowed in a group has been restricted to 5 from unlimited. I can see where this idea came from, large groups on blufor/opfor would switch from their respective teams to indi in order to gain more kills as their team would be stacked and they found it to be boring. This was used multiple times and gave the players leaving the teams a unfair advantage (in some situations). The idea was to reduce the stack, but it rarely worked as the skilled players leaving would result in the team falling apart. 

With the current limit being 5, even extremely skilled players cannot defeat opfor regardless or of their skill within vehicles  or in ground combat, this is due to a variety of reasons: 1. Often the number of opfor's exceed 15 players leaving the indi group at a 1:3 player ratio and opfor at a 3:1 advantage. 2. The problem really becomes apparent when the Wasteland Veterans play in opfor. For Example opfor control the main runway, they are sitting at gunstore with 20k each, if any air vehicles come within 2km they are shot down, if someone is sniping at them with a lynx from 2km they are found and killed by Titan At's. This makes it impossible to take over the store and defeat opfor, even if you do manage to kill them all they will just drop back down to their gear making it impossible to bury bodies with 5 players.

I suggest that the number be raised from 5 to 8. 8 Players would be sufficient to stand a chance against large teams and it would also result in players being left out of the 5 man teams due to there being no room for them. Most often than not these players join opfor such then increases the problem and disadvantages the indi group fighting them. Now before anyone says "why not just join blufor", i find blufor in most cases to be a disadvantage as it has many newer players and they cannot work cohesively against opfor, most often they just die and spawn on a zone a player is in and die again (and the process repeats). 

@Unit_3397 @Ya Mum

Edited May 10, 2017 by FBI

[Unit_3397 712]

This topic is subject for review in the coming week.

Its a bit of a grey area as many people have different opinions on how large the group size should be. A few members even noted that indies shouldn't be allowed to group up; "as independents their roles isn't to attack large groups of enemies or work together, you want to team up, join blufor or opfor. The vet players should try vs each other or teaming up with those of us that  arent as frequent in playing as them" 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Unit_3397
us replaced them*

[LAZYSHOT 49]

im up for invite to your indie group :]

BTW 3000hrs plus wasteland = vet im sure.. most don't even have 1000hrs idk how it works u tell me

ps.after reading your post properly spmg 2k away vs lynx im pulling out a titan. BL ALI

Edited May 11, 2017 by LAZYSHOT

[BulletL 77]

Single handedly one of the worst changes made to the server. Not only is Inde the worst team, you have fewer numbers and in fights numbers will almost always win. You cannot say well what if people stack Inde - because no one can. Ive watched Opfor teams and Blufor teams join but they lack everything required to function. They simply fall apart. Let's be real here, the only threat to Opfor and Blufor is Dymiums Inde team which is always outnumbered, they have less resources and less power but seem to greatly influence the battlefields. I don't even play anymore but it's very odd you would nerf Inde to 5 players and believe they will combat 25 Opfor players. You can't say Inde is more coordinated because you can make a cool little 5 man group in Opfor which logically speaking is more effective because you have your 5 skilled and coordinated players backed up by 15 more random player that provide money, spawns, people, guns etc. KOTH is a perfect example, do they limit the players to 5 ??? No because it would be very unfair - (Current Server Conditions) if Inde want to make a big group, let them it won't work without a certain combination of players.

It seems the changes just nerf any skill. In every game there will be better player and worse players although if you consistently nerf the good players you ruin their fun and lose server population.

 

Don't burst a blood vessel, this is MY opinion. I take this nerf to Inde almost as a threat to the server.

Edited May 12, 2017 by BulletL

[Nunny 81]

If u want to have bigger group sizes join opfor or blufor, independent is for independent players

[FBI 195]

1 hour ago, Nunny said:

If u want to have bigger group sizes join opfor or blufor, independent is for independent players

 

On 5/10/2017 at 2:11 PM, FBI said:

 Now before anyone says "why not just join blufor", i find blufor in most cases to be a disadvantage as it has many newer players and they cannot work cohesively against opfor, most often they just die and spawn on a zone a player is in and die again (and the process repeats).

Blind? The whole point of this thread is to combat opfor and blufor stacking. I don't want to play on those teams unless im farming money. Joining blufor or opfor with a group of over 5 people is only making the problem worse now isnt it? Blufor is legitimately useless in a team, Opfor only works when certain players are online, without them they fall apart and are useless like blufor. Hell why not just make independant for solo players only!, that seems like a great idea. Let opfor camp gunstores in massive groups and make a whole zone of the map untouchable. Why even bother playing if you have 10/15/20/25 players behind you attacking groups of 5 or less? Seems like the only people that play on these teams currently rely on excessive teamates to have their backs?

[Ya Mum 187]

21 minutes ago, FBI said:

Hell why not just make independant for solo players only

Done!!! 

Got my vote.

[BulletL 77]

But FBI we should nerf Inde more!!!! It's not like Arma 3 promotes team tactics and team play. Then it would be fair so all "good" players (Ones who can't play on Inde) all play on Opfor and sit around and vegetate as they fire AP missiles from the gunstore at anyone that moves then gain kills and believe they are good. Or actually when they move up on a solo Inde in a gunstore with 20 people and kill the player. It's REALLY odd that Agent Revolution specifically allows the use of mass Inde teams to combat Opfor and Blufor. Maybe we should just change the name from Wasteland - Team Deathmatch to OPforland - OPformatch? Because Blufor is terrible and they generally amount to random solo plays around the map and OH HEY lets make Inde a solo only. Yeah nice you can clearly tell apart the skilled players from the "veggies" by the teams they choose and the challenges they face.

Wasteland is suppose to be balanced. All 3 teams should have the same power. You can NEVER argue Independent is OP or requires a squad limit. Because it simply wont have the numebers to combat both Veggiefors. 

As a side note, the term Independant is referring the Altis Armed Forces which are Stratis' Military - They are an Independant Military tasked to secure the soverign territy of Altis and Stratis. Please read before you type because saying its a good idea for a 1 man army to be a thing is reall ridiculous. Revolution allows you to chose between making a team of any size and allowing propper command and structure to playing by yourself.

[Ya Mum 187]

I simply do not understand even the most basic logic around this "issue"

First of all these are my opinions only,

• If you want to form a large or winning  team, there are 2 teams to for you to choose from.
• We as SG Staff create a map based on what is best for the majority of the player base and community generally. Not specific teams or people
• There are probably lots of things Agent Rev has developed for the map but its up to the SG Staff to filter out what we want and don't want.
• The fact that you choose to restrict yourselves to a side that is at a size disadvantage is a personal problem
• If you genuinely want to integrate into the community and server, do not put yourselves in the position of being ostracized by saying all the other teams a crap and we demand the server be managed "this way" just to satisfy your own "teams" wishes.

[FBI 195]

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

If you want to form a large or winning  team, there are 2 teams to for you to choose from.
 

The fact of the matter is, for me playing on blufor or opfor is very boring. It requires little skill, for example today me and a few others joined opfor and dominated the server with little to no resistance. This is due to the fact we are pretty much the only threat to opfors existance. The majority of the time BLUFOR does not have a clue as to what is going on and opfor is 'stacked'.

This is what the server looked like today.

https://gyazo.com/f3f377dc0a2afdb4f78ee2494acec94e

https://gyazo.com/6ee99630124535b2e9b3125004865f89

Not a very fun or enticing experience for anyone not playing OPFOR. It is silly restricting if friends can play together on any desired 'team' they wish including independant, what if someone doesn't want to play on BLUFOR or OPFOR? Why should they be restricted to excluding players due to the 5 man Indepedant limit. Im not saying the limit has to be infinite, after all it is Staff's final opinion on the matter.

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

• We as SG Staff create a map based on what is best for the majority of the player base and community generally. Not specific teams or people
• There are probably lots of things Agent Rev has developed for the map but its up to the SG Staff to filter out what we want and don't want.

Im not saying StrayaGaming staff members should cater for specific groups or individuals, this is merely a suggestion which i believe will benefit the server.

I really dont mind things being kept out of the map, the less 'OP' shit the better.

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

• The fact that you choose to restrict yourselves to a side that is at a size disadvantage is a personal problem

We do not 'restrict' ourselves to independent to be for the fun if it. I personally find independent to be a much more fun experience. 5 players is far to scarce to compete with highly skilled players for the average joe. I could buy Jets and pawnees all day and pick on smaller groups, but for what? To make them rage quit declining the servers population? What for i'd rather vs a larger and more experienced team even if it is at the expense of losing sometimes.

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

• If you genuinely want to integrate into the community and server, do not put yourselves in the position of being ostracized by saying all the other teams a crap and we demand the server be managed "this way" just to satisfy your own "teams" wishes.

I only say BLUFOR is 'shit' because it is from my own personal experiences. The majority of the time they are lost as to what they are doing. Once again my personal opinion. OPFOR players are not 'shit' players i myself started out there and know many people from that team, shit talking is apart of video games, it happens very frequently in Global chat and most of the time it is a Joke. I'm not demanding in any way shape or form for independent group slots to be increased, it is only a suggestion, which i happen to feel strongly about. As for my "own" teams wishes, i cannot speak on behalf of them, i feel this is the best solution for the problem i see.

At the end of the day this is a video game. I find it silly that people need to be 'forced' to play on BLUFOR or OPFOR if they have a group larger than 5. If a final decision is made by the Server Manager i will not argue with it. At this point in time this is merely a suggestion, how the staff choose to interpret it and resolve it as they see fit is completely up to you guys.

[BulletL 77]

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

I simply do not understand even the most basic logic around this "issue"

 

It's funny you say that I myself don't understand why Independent was hit by such a hard nerf to begin with... sounds like some corruption to me. Even with all the advantages Opfor has over Independent -> Server is becoming beyond a joke. Inde has and will always be at a disadvantage so why ruin it more.

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3 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

If you want to form a large or winning  team, there are 2 teams to for you to choose from.

1

I never said I wanted to form a large or winning team, Dymiums small team of 7 Indes do that naturally. The fact that you have the nerve to nerf and neglect such a team is disappointing. You will see below why we don't play on Opfor or Blufor.

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You see I'm not sure anymore if the server is created for the staff or the community? I'm beginning to lose track of it all. 

2 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

We as SG Staff create a map based on what is best for the majority of the player base and community generally.

 

So you're saying its best for the majority of players if you restrict Independent to 5 players to which they are unable to combat Opfor? Last time I checked Opfor was a serious issue that "needed" to be looked into. It's odd you would leave such a large group like Opfor to make hundreds of players ragequit and control the entirety of the map making it a terrible experience for anyone not on Opfor.

-----------------------------------

You know it seems like you're almost rooting for Opfor in this argument. BUT WAIT, I almost forgot... Ya Mum ONLY plays on OPfor no wonder you're backing them up.

3 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

There are probably lots of things Agent Rev has developed for the map but its up to the SG Staff to filter out what we want and don't want.

 

Ok so the SG Staff filter out what they don't want and what they do so the server is for the Straya Gaming Staff fair enough... so why not put a passcode on entry and lock everyone else out? If you pick on all your players and give them a terrible experience the player count is going to fall like a wipeout being flown by a bad pilot.

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3 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

The fact that you choose to restrict yourselves to a side that is at a size disadvantage is a personal problem

 

I didn't choose or ask for Inde to be limited to 5 people. Instead, the SG Staff decided on behalf of the community. Why even nerf Inde in the first place? Independent is a way of creating and controlling your own team, not having to deal with trolls and griefers. Meaning less complaints and less work for you... It's clear that there are so many more points supporting my argument and ridiculing this change and the thought process behind it. I sure didn't see anyone ask the community what they want. Hell lets ask the 4 Staff members we have because they are funding the community and populating the servers. Servers are run off communities, not off staff. Staff are vital in keeping order however without the player base the server is nothing more than an IP.

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3 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

If you genuinely want to integrate into the community and server, do not put yourselves in the position of being ostracized by saying all the other teams a crap and we demand the server be managed "this way" just to satisfy your own "teams" wishes.

1

So we tried Opfor, many times over. You specifically remember the result... Dymiums group dominated the entire server and you got angry, restarted the server so we lose our stuff and began abusing us the players and your rights as staff and as a result got a strike and warning. Not a good outcome.

So we tried again today, we dominated the server once again, the normal Opfor players were all complaining that they weren't able to join and as a result wanted the server to fix the Inde slot limitation.

We don't play on Blufor because

1. We cannot choose who we play with. -> Avoid playing with trolls.

2. Find Blufor players do not help and are rather there to take gear.

There are so many more...

As you can see this is not just a few points about what I believe. I'm very passionate for and supportive of the server however when abusive changes such as the aforementioned are made, I have no choice. This needs to be fixed and there definitely shouldn't even be a Inde group limit, its beyond a joke.

[cragyowie 1]

It's a shame that Indie which has no real advantages to begin with is being nerfed in this latest patch.  This will end up forcing players who want to join a team greater than 5 will be forced to join OPFOR or BLUFOR, which will (like tonight) end up having a group of "OPFOR" players being unable to join.
While I understand the definition of Independent, I enjoy having intense fights between 3 factions.  As it stands it more often just ends up being OPFOR camping strategic points.  The 5+ difference that was introduced for the teams is a great and much needed addition.
If you don't want competition that the latest patch has achieved this outcome.

 

[Ya Mum 187]

....and yet it's still only your group that seems to have any major issue with it.

Clearly you get off on twisting words and distorting the truth to suit your own arguments and until you can start looking objectively at things and remove your ego"s and personality issues then there is no point continuing the conversation.

@Unit_3397

[Unit_3397 712]

Im locking this thread from further comments. Ill be posting the verdict in here later today in regards to both this topic and to give the community a general vibe of wastelands direction

edit, later tomorrow now, sorry.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Unit_3397

[Unit_3397 712]

I apologize for the delay, here is the post i promised.