Fire Support Team Rework (Updated 24/6/2017)

[Tungsten 69]

After much planning (and distractions) i have finally come up with a a few solid plans for a Fire Support Team rework. In its current form the FSG and artillery is both completely inferior to CAS in both effectiveness and the amount of time it takes to pack up and preposition after each AO.

 

Overall Aim of rework:

Making the Scorcher and Mortars a relevant fire support option for when CAS is not available or not right for the job by making the artillery more accurate and with a faster response time

Adding a new way of playing for people who prefer more active support roles while helping people who play fight in the AOs

The Removal of the immobile and ineffective Artillery at the main base opening up more space in the Sling load/Rewards area for VTOL s

That said, the aim is to make the Fire Support Team an ALTERNATIVE, not a replacement for CAS

 

• Option 1: Artillery battery at Base:

Removed to free up space

 

• Option 2: Downgrade to Man portable Fire Support:

Removed to free up Space

 

• Option 3: FOB based Fire Support:

This option will kill 3 birds with one stone, More space in the Sling area, Faster and more effective Fire support and giving FOBs more usefulness. When a Ammo and Box HEMMT are sent to the FOB in addition to respawning vehicles, either a immobilized Howitzer, or mortar (or both) will become available for use at the FOB. Because of the nature of FOBs and the occasional enemy attack on them, this will also give some risk to FSG outside of the "oh damn, Enemy CAS bombed the truck", but unfortunately this requires additional coding that could potentially break.

FOB based Fire Support will allow for faster and more effective fire support and giving FOBs more usefulness.

Rather then just having the artillery spawn with the FOB, the FOB needs to be Activated and Supplied before you can use the Artillery.

The idea is that when both an Ammo and Box HEMMT are sent to the FOB in addition to respawning vehicles, an immobilized Howitzer will become available for use at the FOB. Because of the nature of FOBs and the occasional enemy attack on them, this will also give some risk to FSG outside of enemy CAS but also makes logistics necessary to an extent rather then purely optional.

Ideally the Scorcher will have access to these shells:

• HE for Standard Anti Personal and Anti Structure
• Smoke to help players in trouble
• Guided for less selective or intricate Anti armor work
• Laser Guided for Precise Anti Personnel and Anti Armor work

I would like Cluster HE to be available, as it allows for Anti Personnel Area Denial, but there will be some debate needed as to the inclusion of these shells but i do recognize the potential problems that could arise with this ammo type, but i also believe they can also be useful

Cluster AT mines and Cluster AP Mines on the other hand are completely off the table, too much can go wrong with these and i personally don't see them working on I&A anyway.

In addition i would like the howitzer to be able to be resupplied, but not in the conventional way due to sheer power it would get, Rather by utilizing the FOB Supplying script or a similar script that when a Ammo HEMMT is brought to the FOB in addition to supplying ammo to the FOB supply box it gives the Artillery ammo as well.

There are several reasons for this, the main one being that the amount of ammo used can vary depending on the Terrain in the AO eg: I know from personal experience that providing CAS in places like the Nidasos woodlands and heavy urban areas like Kavala can take a large amount of time to set up a run and that sometimes the infantry need the fire support faster then you can respond to and set up that run

But at the same time, flat open places like the research facility are usually all CAS, and you might barely use any offensive ammo but lots of smoke shells

 

• Option 4: My Personal Favorite, Self Propelled Fire Support:

By far my preferred option, but also the problem causing child, Doing a rework similar to Ironside, giving FSG its own spawn and Asset area, Adding more slots, and with a respawning Ammo HEMMT and Scorcher (Cheeta SPAAG or MLRS are possible but debatable) that can be operated and moved like usual, this can AND WILL cause issues when people don't want to follow the rules, but will also provide the MOST EFFECTIVE fire support when done right, possibly better then CAS in most situations, the details with the Scorcher will need to be looked into, but preferably it will have access to HE, Smoke and Laser Guided. Cluster and Self Guided will need to be discussed but would greatly boost the effectiveness,  but Cluster AT and AP mines are MOST DEFINITELY up to the discretion of Admins as these WILL BE PROBLEMATIC IF CAUTION IS NOT TAKEN.

 

• Option 5: Command, Firesupport and Logistics Group or just C-FSG

The idea for this is to Expand the FSG role to help assist other support roles via the use of the Data link as well as providing Direct and Indirect Fire Support with emplaced weapons, in addition to the Logistics that are already intimately tied to FSG. The idea comes from the fact that a few of the potential Data link capable vehicles fall under the FSG umbrella E.G  UAVs and SPAAGs and the intimate relationship between FSG and Logistics.

This can put FSG into a more complimentary role to Air support, rather then an alternative, so C-FSG still has an influential role even if its not providing indirect fire support.

Noticeable differences in the role would be integrating UAV with FSG rather then as a go between for CAS and FSG, and giving FSG the chance to do something when there is very little calls for support.

And it also allows for Flexibility to the FSG roll itself by making certain changes:

Allowing for FSG to use Self Propelled Assets like a Cheetah can create an AA defense for Units in Transit Via ground transport or by providing RWR information to Air Assets.

Or

By putting more of an emphasis on Command and Emplaced Support, C-FSG can effectively set up in a good location near the AO and assist ground troops by creating safe zones that can be used as LZs and keep them relatively safe while also directing and assisting Air and Ground Assets

 

Did some playing around in the editor, the only vehicles that can utilize the Data link effectively that are available at base constantly are the Ghosthawks, Huron, Mohawk, Hellcat, Orca, Black fish, Darters, Falcons, Greyhawk's and Sentinels and the Jets.

Some of the reward vehicles are capable of it, even exceeding the easily available ones in terms of usefulness and Sensory range: The Cheetah has long range Air Radar,while the Kajiman and Blackfoot have IR, RWR and Active Radar available to them.

That said, while it does say in the Editor that any vehicle can send, receive and show there locations on the data-link, only the above listed can actually access the MFD window that shows the Data Link information.

Additionally:

The Transport Helos are limited to visual and RWR sensors

The Cheeta radar is a full 360 degree radius that detects up to 9km.

The Black-fish (all types) radar is about forward facing with 270 degree view  that detects up to 7km , with an additional 45 degree directional IR sensor controlled by the copilot that detects up to 4km.

The Blackfoot radar is in a 180 degree frontal cone that detects up to 5km, and a directional IR sensor that detects up to 3km.

The Kajiman has a radar that detects up to 5km in a 110 degree frontal cone and a directional IR sensor that detects up to 4km

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tungsten
can now edit old posts YAY

[Nova 1779]

option 3 is my favorite by far. the whole 3 scorchers would be problematic because there would be more team killing and we'd constantly have to monitor whos using it

[vortex1018 14]

Option 3 sounds great, makes FOBs a more important role than "oh the radar thingo"

[Fitz 1239]

Really appreciate the detailed suggestions!

 

Option 1: Looks pretty useless because, like you said, the accuracy will be pretty bad for most AOs. Having unlimited ammo is overpowered though, even when firing from base.

Option 2: Sounds good and would be fairly easy to implement. The truck(s) could maybe respawn at the FOB? Not sure why the support weapon backpacks aren't restricted already but I'll add the restriction today or tomorrow.

Option 3: This is probably the best one, but the ability to resupply the scorcher would have to be removed. Would probably have it spawn with a bit of extra ammo than usual but again, unlimited ammo is overpowered. 

Option 4: Too powerful and too big a risk of stupid stuff happening. Got to remember, not everyone plays FSG as well as you 

 

Not sure exactly when one of these options or something similar will be implemented as it's only Rog and I that are doing some dev work. I'm a noob and Rog doesn't always have enough time so more important things will come first. 

[Tungsten 69]

i will admit some of the options are powerful, but FSG is an important roll yet there is a very small amount of people who will actually do it, because the general population see's it as either useless in comparison to the Wipeout and Neophron, or too much effort for too little use or effect so there need to be some appeal to it

Option 1 i had simplicity to implement and monitor in mind, but as you said, the unlimited ammo will be problematic esp if someone spams clusters which will lag out the server, that said the Time To Target might be painful but Guided and especially laser guided are pretty accurate, and it was also made leaning towards use for defense missions by use of area denial, although the extra load on the server will cause lag.

Option 2 was the same frame of mind, but with the infantry side of things in mind, these kinds of FSG set ups are my bread and butter, however available fire support is heavily influenced by the terrain and at the same time would most likely cause less interest in the roll due to higher logistical requirements

Option 3 was the option i knew would probably be the best, but also the trickiest to implement due to having to play with multiple scripts, meaning inevitable bugs, preferably  i would like the option to resupply the scorcher, but not in the traditional manor, maybe via a script similar to when supplying the FOB, and ideally have more ammo options outside of standard HE, like smoke, and the Guided and Laser Guided which are HEAT, so they can actually damage armor, but the Cluster would be nice, but the Cluster Mine shells would be too problematic. Unlimited ammo would be too powerful if it was in the traditional manor, however the amount of ammo spent fluctuates heavily depending on who is on and where the AO is. the Woodland Mountainous and Urban areas are the best example as places ammo usage would spike, but in wide open areas it would decline due to CAS being the better option because of the response time.

and to be honest Option 4 mainly Hopes and dreams in addition to effectiveness, even with the T100 Treatment it would be troublesome if someone decides to cause trouble intentionally or ignorantly, but at the same time, one of the few times you let me use the scorcher while you where on showed just how effective it was when stationed about 1 - 2km out of the AO, and people where actually calling it in often enough that i was rarely idle for more then 5 minutes, people where even choosing me over a Wipeout, but at the same time, there was real and present threats when reinforcements come in after you complete a sub objective or from enemy CAS, and it could encourage more people to take up the roll, especially when the recruitable AI are removed, because ideally the slots would be expanded to be more then just 3 people

 

Pretty much all of these options are made under the assumption they will be adjusted to suit the server

Edited December 11, 2016 by Tungsten

[VSWolf 0]

Option 3 sounds the best to me. 

[vortex1018 14]

9 hours ago, Fitz said:

Option 1: Looks pretty useless because, like you said, the accuracy will be pretty bad for most AOs. Having unlimited ammo is overpowered though, even when firing from base.

Option 2: Sounds good and would be fairly easy to implement. The truck(s) could maybe respawn at the FOB? Not sure why the support weapon backpacks aren't restricted already but I'll add the restriction today or tomorrow.

Option 3: This is probably the best one, but the ability to resupply the scorcher would have to be removed. Would probably have it spawn with a bit of extra ammo than usual but again, unlimited ammo is overpowered. 

Option 4: Too powerful and too big a risk of stupid stuff happening. Got to remember, not everyone plays FSG as well as you 

 

It won't be OP if like CAS, rules are introduced to set the ROE for FSG

[Tungsten 69]

18 hours ago, vortex1018 said:

It won't be OP if like CAS, rules are introduced to set the ROE for FSG

Artillery already has rules on ROE similar to CAS, its just barely anyone else does the role so it gets easily forgotten that they even exist

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tungsten

[Tungsten 69]

Just a further Ironing out and Clarification of Option 3 mainly, but i have not given up on my Option 4 (We all need dreams so some ironing and clarity for that too) but i cant Edit my original post so new wall of text

Moved to Opening Post

As for Option 4, as i mentioned in my original post, i see this as the option that would make FSG shine the most, but it is also going to be a problem when abused.

But as for why i still support it, where as Option 3 is the more suited for I&A but as i also said in my original it could potentially cause many issues ,

Option 4 is also the backup as it more just an Add on compared to Option 3's overhaul that requires playing with common scripts to add in the feature that can potentially cause issues.

But on top of that, it gives more interaction with other roles due to the mobile nature of the FSG in this option, it requires more then just the Scorcher, it requires a team to not only operate the scorcher, but to operate the ammo HEMT or bobcat to not only resupply the artillery but also carry the gear for the static Titan AA/AT to protect the team and provide more then just Artillery support, but Direct AA and AT as well.

A happy side effect of this is being able to act as a forward supply point for any vehicles operating in the AO and the ability for FSG to more actively participate in the AO via direct means or provide the much needed support during a Defense Mission.

That said i understand that if someone decides to abuse this power it will be very messy indeed but i also see it as more viable then Option 1 and 2 as backups. but i do not expect a fully mobile scorcher to be without chains, the main thing i can think of to reduce the amount of abuse is to put it on a long respawn time much like the T100 Ironside gets and it goes without saying that the shells available to the scorcher will be similar to the option 3 loadout, everything but the clusters usable, Cluster HE is debatable but NO CLUSTER MINES

as for balancing the power of limitless artillery ammo via conventional resupply for Option 4, im still working on ideas

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tungsten

[Tungsten 69]

Moved to Opening Post

 

@Fitz @InfamousNova what do you think?

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tungsten

[Tungsten 69]

Moved to Opening Post

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tungsten

[Tungsten 69]

Gonna be cleaning this up and Updating it to make it easier to read now that i can edit older posts

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tungsten