Vehicle balancing suggestions for wasteland

[James32 823]

I mean with proper counterplay a mortar is incredibly fragile, even a HMG can destroy one in like 2 seconds flat or a single rocket of any type from any vehicle, the real problem is when people don't understand the two methods of counterplay to a mortar, 1) Another mortar (a single shell will destroy a mortar) or 2) Air vehicles. Fortunately for mortar users trying to make a point about the balance implications of removing heavy air the one hard counter to a well AA defended mortar was removed, (ie blackfoots) blackfoots with long range fly by wire DAGR rockets were the hard counter to mortars, being able to outrange their AA defenses, fortunately for mortars blackfoots were removed resulting one of the only 2 effective counters to a competent mortar team no longer existing. Honestly mortars are really weak, what makes them strong is the enemy presence indicator around gun stores, without that they would be nigh unusable but with it they are incredibly strong.

As for justice's point I think rearm trucks are integral to the game and balanced by the fact that they cost almost as much as a top tier attack heli, the real issue is that the bobcat needs to be like 60-70k because it is stronger than any other rearm (and costs $32.5k). Furthermore limiting attack vehicles punishes the team that is behind more than the team that is ahead by ensuring they cant use vehicles to push back/reclaim territory against a stronger opposing team who has initial air superiority, this would nly lead to larger stomps by the numerically advantaged team.

[Adolf 42]

Mortars need to be removed, the targeting computer removed or the server removes the status indicator at the gun stores. You cant have all 3. It sounds so easy "just get another mortar" how are you meant to do that when the gun stores are getting constantly bombed because the person with the mortar knows youre in there? Jets are easier to take down than a mortar as the jet doesn't have walls around it with players protecting the mortar. 

Its just obscene how the wipe out gets removed which takes skill to fly but a 80k mortar with artillery computer which a noob could use doesn't get removed. 

Not to mention the unmanned stompers... I'm sure you all know who spams these and leaves them at gun stores. Once again, the wipeout gets removed but an UNMANNED VEHICLE stays with no limit per person. 

I like the server, but this shit is wearing thin. Nothing ever gets changed.

[Dak Commstar 139]

On 2/12/2017 at 8:53 AM, BulletL said:

Nothing should be over the price of 100k, vehicles are supposed to give an advantage and those skilled enough to have mastered them gain a superior advantage. Jets and air support play a large role in taking over certain areas and with a good pilot can give a great advantage. The real problem is air vehicles on Opfor and Blufor as they have so many players to support them. A jet on Inde is nothing in comparison to a jet on Opfor. The jet on Opfor will have the airfield secure by 10 or so players in addition to central Stratis which gives great AA vantage points such as the radio tower and other tall structures. A Jet on Inde has to combat all the Opfor/Blufor AA which is extremely difficult if you factor a number of flares the Wipeout gets. Hence why no one flys on Inde. With the top tier Launchers being so easy to obtain, making air vehicles overpriced and not worth for certain teams would mean players not using air vehicles. However, these price changes NEED to be team specific. Jets on Blufor should be as much if not less than the same on Opfor(provided you increase the price to something higher) as Blufor is generally fighting the stacked Opfor team and should definitely not be the same price as Inde as you need to factor in they actually need the Airfield. Vehicles shouldn't be edited at all. The more vehicles you add the more the game gets interesting adds new kinds of threats. I hope to see the Falcon back in at 60k or something reasonable as now there is not rearm heli.

Unless those few skilled players get enough money to start spamming them. Much alike the drone spam that's happening right now. I don't think they should be priced low if they can destroy an entire team over and over and then be spammed on top of that.

[BulletL 77]

@Dak Commstar You would love this thread  https://strayagaming.com.au/forums/topic/11125-how-to-ababil/

 

[FBI 195]

14 minutes ago, Dak Commstar said:

Unless those few skilled players get enough money to start spamming them. Much alike the drone spam that's happening right now. I don't think they should be priced low if they can destroy an entire team over and over and then be spammed on top of that.

One jet per restart per person would be reasonable.

[Jüstice™. 46]

On 2/13/2017 at 9:08 PM, DIRTYSCRUB said:

Hey, what's wrong with building concrete walls around a mortar and using a bobcat within close proximity and spamming. Nah remove jets, to OP

I'd rather Jets then the constant bombardment from noobs on mortars that have no skill and too much money...you at least get a break when the Jet rearms or you have enough players willing to spend the cash and buy AA's

[DIRTYSCRUB 41]

9 minutes ago, Jüstice™. said:

I'd rather Jets then the constant bombardment from noobs on mortars that have no skill and too much money...you at least get a break when the Jet rearms or you have enough players willing to spend the cash and buy AA's

Totally agree. Could name a few people like this

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Remove ATMs Completely and make the only way to store Cash Warchests. Like the good old A2 Days.

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Another suggestion unrelated to vehicles is to make Spawnbeacons only drop from Missions. perhaps even add them to the sunken treasure.

 

and to add onto misc suggestions remove the bulk of building supplies from general store leaving only small practical things like ammo boxes and make Building parts spawn randomly around the map encouraging teamplay and less cancerous constructions that make everyones FPS shit

Edited February 15, 2017 by Blue Eagle [+1 CREW]

[chutneykiwi 19]

On 2/7/2017 at 0:14 PM, FBI said:

Jets

As you all my well know jets can completely destroy a stratis wasteland server in the hands of a good pilot, which leads to complaining and whining for the removal of jets etc. But anyone who actually flys a jet knows how hard it can be to actually avoid aa's being fired at you as jets only get 5 sets of flares, which isnt much compared to a blackfoot which gets 10 sets. Any really good jet pilot will have to use the mountains and fly very low of the ground to avoid aa fire which i've seen only 4 pilots do on the entire time i have been playing on the server, others will be shot down after they lose all their flares and wouldn't of done much to impact the server. Jets are a high risk high reward item so lets keep them like that by adding them back in but making them 100k rather than 80k so you show on the map as a HVT, another thing that can balance jets out is the removal of atgm missles throughout the jet line up. These missles are ridiculously op and can kill any kind of enemy armor in one shot from over 5km's away without them knowing. An example of this is a enemy buying aa tank just for them to have it blown up right after being purchased by a jet, with the removal of atgm missles from jets it will give aa tanks a fighting chance as the pilot will have to use the 30mm cannon to kill the aa tank from a fairly close range. The removal of atgms from jets and the price hike i feel will help balance the server out abit more in jet gameplay aswell as tank gameplay. 

Attack Helicopters (Kajman & Blackfoot)

Currently the kajman is one of the weakest air vehicles in the game as it is outclassed completely by the Xi'an VTOL i have no suggestions to balance the kajman as it already a weak vehicle and the price should stay the same. The blackfoot on other hand, oh boy the vehicle that is known for sniping fresh spawns from 4km away and overall a rage inducing vehicle when used in that way, you can't fix the players methods in this manner but you can increase the price to 80k aswell as another vehicle balance i will be explaining below which will rid the blackfoot users that sit 3km away and 2km up out of render distance recking the entire server with no counterplay. Overall these two vehicles are probably the easiest to shoot down as they are large and heavy and have a difficult time dodging aa missles from short range aswell as long range if the pilot is inexperienced. To counter auto hoverers use AT'S. 

Tanks

These are usually the most useless vehicles on a wasteland server as one missle and the vehicle will usually explode, people tend to stay away from these as they have short life spans and are harder to use at long ranges. When a missle is fired at a tank there is usualy no counterplay it usually means you will die once the missle hits. What i suggest is a countermeasure to at rockets, dagrs etc.. By making the smoke screen of these vehicles deter guided missles whilst the vehicle is inside the smokescreen, this way it dosent make the tanks too op but also gives them a fighting chance, so if a missle has been fired at you use smoke and work out your next move, this gives tanks some counterplay rather then them being in the state they are now. Moving on to the blackfoot from before these are usually the main killer of tanks from long distances, when someone is using a aa tank againist a blackfoot, the blackfoot usually wins as it only requires two dagrs to destroy and the aa tank cannot do anything to avoid it, by adding the countermeasures to deter guided missles tanks can stand a chance againist blackfoots and other guided rockets. But any good blackfoot users will just fly close range and kill the aa tank as they have no time to react and pop smoke, making the blackfoot alot risker to use as it is vulnerable to aa fire close range and can easily be shot down by the aa tank. This countermeasure feature is also on King of the hill and anyone who plays it knows that is somewhat balances all vehicles and allows everyone a fighting chance. 

 

Another simple fix is to ban FBI from flying at all!!

Went from 6 Player kills and 0 deaths after about 10 mins of play last night to 6 player kills and 7 deaths because I got owned by FBI in his damn white chopper!!! LOL

Im relatively new to the game but this has been one of the very few times that I have had been owned by someone in an aircraft (helo or Jet) and to be fair apart from transporting players around I haven't seen a lot of "dominance" of aircraft doing CAS on the server. Whether this is because of the points raised above or on this thread or there just isn't alot of skilled pilots playing to command such respect.

However when I do see aircraft going hard is generally around the gunshops when it shows up on the map that there are enemies in there. I think I have seen it either on this thread or somewhere else perhaps as a short term fix the indication that enemies are in the store gets removed or its shows up after perhaps 60 seconds. So you have 60 seconds to get in buy your stuff and leave before the indication comes up? I'm only spitballing a suggestion.

Whatever the fix is Im sure you legends will work it out but until last night I wasn't overly concerned with aircraft. FBI opened my eyes. Next time I log on I will def check if he's playing and hide under any piece of bush when I hear aircraft and arm up with AA's.

 

[FBI 195]

2 hours ago, chutneykiwi said:

Another simple fix is to ban FBI from flying at all!!

Went from 6 Player kills and 0 deaths after about 10 mins of play last night to 6 player kills and 7 deaths because I got owned by FBI in his damn white chopper!!! LOL

Im relatively new to the game but this has been one of the very few times that I have had been owned by someone in an aircraft (helo or Jet) and to be fair apart from transporting players around I haven't seen a lot of "dominance" of aircraft doing CAS on the server. Whether this is because of the points raised above or on this thread or there just isn't alot of skilled pilots playing to command such respect.

However when I do see aircraft going hard is generally around the gunshops when it shows up on the map that there are enemies in there. I think I have seen it either on this thread or somewhere else perhaps as a short term fix the indication that enemies are in the store gets removed or its shows up after perhaps 60 seconds. So you have 60 seconds to get in buy your stuff and leave before the indication comes up? I'm only spitballing a suggestion.

Whatever the fix is Im sure you legends will work it out but until last night I wasn't overly concerned with aircraft. FBI opened my eyes. Next time I log on I will def check if he's playing and hide under any piece of bush when I hear aircraft and arm up with AA's.

 

People don't reliase how easy it is to kill a chopper, the way i was flying over that gunstore a rocket from sub 100m is very hard to dodge. If more people have aa's and stay away from gunstores after they're done purchasing what they need it they will most likely be able to hide until a armed heli flys over and they can kill it with aa and then simply go back into the store. 

[Adolf 42]

8 hours ago, chutneykiwi said:

Another simple fix is to ban FBI from flying at all!!

Went from 6 Player kills and 0 deaths after about 10 mins of play last night to 6 player kills and 7 deaths because I got owned by FBI in his damn white chopper!!! LOL

Im relatively new to the game but this has been one of the very few times that I have had been owned by someone in an aircraft (helo or Jet) and to be fair apart from transporting players around I haven't seen a lot of "dominance" of aircraft doing CAS on the server. Whether this is because of the points raised above or on this thread or there just isn't alot of skilled pilots playing to command such respect.

However when I do see aircraft going hard is generally around the gunshops when it shows up on the map that there are enemies in there. I think I have seen it either on this thread or somewhere else perhaps as a short term fix the indication that enemies are in the store gets removed or its shows up after perhaps 60 seconds. So you have 60 seconds to get in buy your stuff and leave before the indication comes up? I'm only spitballing a suggestion.

Whatever the fix is Im sure you legends will work it out but until last night I wasn't overly concerned with aircraft. FBI opened my eyes. Next time I log on I will def check if he's playing and hide under any piece of bush when I hear aircraft and arm up with AA's.

 

Choppers are easy to shoot down, but no one bothers to get aa except a few people. Jets on the other hand, you need at least 2 people with aa unless its directly overhead. 

[Ya Mum 187]

I'm loving some of the suggestions in this thread. Some really positive (and really shit) suggestions.

how about this, keep jets and mortars but simply remove the red and green markers for the gun stores on the map?

if you're in a gun store we'll keep the enemy entered the area message but on the map it will just look like a vacant gun store

The intent would be that the pilots and mortar spammers can still have their fun but they need intel from other players where the enemy is and not rely on map colours 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Ya Mum

[DIRTYSCRUB 41]

10 hours ago, FBI said:

People don't reliase how easy it is to kill a chopper, the way i was flying over that gunstore a rocket from sub 100m is very hard to dodge. If more people have aa's and stay away from gunstores after they're done purchasing what they need it they will most likely be able to hide until a armed heli flys over and they can kill it with aa and then simply go back into the store. 

You and James found that out the hard way when i ruined your fun that match ayeee  

[Adolf 42]

53 minutes ago, Ya Mum said:

I'm loving some of the suggestions in this thread. Some really positive (and really shit) suggestions.

how about this, keep jets and mortars but simply remove the red and green markers for the gun stores on the map?

if you're in a gun store we'll keep the enemy entered the area message but on the map it will just look like a vacant gun store

The intent would be that the pilots and mortar spammers can still have their fun but they need intel from other players where the enemy is and not rely on map colours 

Yup easiest way to fix the issue between jets and mortars. 

[FBI 195]

45 minutes ago, DIRTYSCRUB said:

You and James found that out the hard way when i ruined your fun that match ayeee  

I normally wouldn't buy more choppers after being killed once or twice but gotta dump money somehow.

[James32 823]

Hahaha yeah choppers are useless vs a lot of AA to the point of being comical, I tend to find the only time CAS is effective/long lived is when  players dont buy AA, or if you have an exceptional pilot like @FBI or one of the other skilled pilots on the server!, but no matter how good you are 2-3 similtaneous AA WILL kill a heli almost regardless of the flaring skill of the pilot. As for @YA_MUM's idea i think that is an ideal compromise, it punishes intel lacking teams and means human driven logistics (be it boots on the ground or drones) is needed for CAS and mortars to be effective without needing a direct nerf to their offensive capabilities in the hands of a skilled pilot, it also stops the stupid "chase the other team across the server and wipe them before they gear" that leads to rage quitting and one team being depopulated due to the other team chain killing them any time they go near a gunstore, overall IMO its a badically ideal change in terms of improving server health while not punishing teams simply playing well, it also removes the strange notion of the game passively giving you enemy positions which i've never really liked

Edited February 22, 2017 by James32
typos

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Remove 3D Spotting and Targeting computer from Mortars would be nice too. That way without the targeting computer the 2S9 Sochor and the Nato equivalent can be added

[FBI 195]

24 minutes ago, Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] said:

Remove 3D Spotting and Targeting computer from Mortars would be nice too. That way without the targeting computer the 2S9 Sochor and the Nato equivalent can be added

Even without targeting computers the arty tanks can do some serious damage, especially on a map like Stratis. But removing targeting computers is a must for mortars since anyone can use them and top leaderboards.

[BulletL 77]

Mortars are literally point and click, no skill required. Pretty sure navigating through the A3 menu to join the server and pick a slot is harder and requires more effort. When sitting on a stacked Opfor/Blufor with 30 odd players sitting around defending, making it extremely difficult to kill. Something isn't right. Artillery Computer needs to go bye bye.