Vehicle balancing suggestions for wasteland

[FBI 195]

Jets

As you all my well know jets can completely destroy a stratis wasteland server in the hands of a good pilot, which leads to complaining and whining for the removal of jets etc. But anyone who actually flys a jet knows how hard it can be to actually avoid aa's being fired at you as jets only get 5 sets of flares, which isnt much compared to a blackfoot which gets 10 sets. Any really good jet pilot will have to use the mountains and fly very low of the ground to avoid aa fire which i've seen only 4 pilots do on the entire time i have been playing on the server, others will be shot down after they lose all their flares and wouldn't of done much to impact the server. Jets are a high risk high reward item so lets keep them like that by adding them back in but making them 100k rather than 80k so you show on the map as a HVT, another thing that can balance jets out is the removal of atgm missles throughout the jet line up. These missles are ridiculously op and can kill any kind of enemy armor in one shot from over 5km's away without them knowing. An example of this is a enemy buying aa tank just for them to have it blown up right after being purchased by a jet, with the removal of atgm missles from jets it will give aa tanks a fighting chance as the pilot will have to use the 30mm cannon to kill the aa tank from a fairly close range. The removal of atgms from jets and the price hike i feel will help balance the server out abit more in jet gameplay aswell as tank gameplay. 

Attack Helicopters (Kajman & Blackfoot)

Currently the kajman is one of the weakest air vehicles in the game as it is outclassed completely by the Xi'an VTOL i have no suggestions to balance the kajman as it already a weak vehicle and the price should stay the same. The blackfoot on other hand, oh boy the vehicle that is known for sniping fresh spawns from 4km away and overall a rage inducing vehicle when used in that way, you can't fix the players methods in this manner but you can increase the price to 80k aswell as another vehicle balance i will be explaining below which will rid the blackfoot users that sit 3km away and 2km up out of render distance recking the entire server with no counterplay. Overall these two vehicles are probably the easiest to shoot down as they are large and heavy and have a difficult time dodging aa missles from short range aswell as long range if the pilot is inexperienced. To counter auto hoverers use AT'S. 

Tanks

These are usually the most useless vehicles on a wasteland server as one missle and the vehicle will usually explode, people tend to stay away from these as they have short life spans and are harder to use at long ranges. When a missle is fired at a tank there is usualy no counterplay it usually means you will die once the missle hits. What i suggest is a countermeasure to at rockets, dagrs etc.. By making the smoke screen of these vehicles deter guided missles whilst the vehicle is inside the smokescreen, this way it dosent make the tanks too op but also gives them a fighting chance, so if a missle has been fired at you use smoke and work out your next move, this gives tanks some counterplay rather then them being in the state they are now. Moving on to the blackfoot from before these are usually the main killer of tanks from long distances, when someone is using a aa tank againist a blackfoot, the blackfoot usually wins as it only requires two dagrs to destroy and the aa tank cannot do anything to avoid it, by adding the countermeasures to deter guided missles tanks can stand a chance againist blackfoots and other guided rockets. But any good blackfoot users will just fly close range and kill the aa tank as they have no time to react and pop smoke, making the blackfoot alot risker to use as it is vulnerable to aa fire close range and can easily be shot down by the aa tank. This countermeasure feature is also on King of the hill and anyone who plays it knows that is somewhat balances all vehicles and allows everyone a fighting chance. 

 

[Adolf 42]

Agree about the tanks, haven't touched one in about a year due to that fact. Also doesn't help that AI jets shoot you up first if youre in a tank/armored vehicle and youre helpless. 

[Links 336]

removing custom view distances would help 

[Ya Mum 187]

Yes and an altitude cap to stop knob heads sitting out of range

[James32 823]

Could make it a soft altitude cap to prevent it being too painful like having it destroy the vehicle might be, maybe make it above 1.5-2km (or some other number, i was just throwing around ideas) your engine is forceably turned off and cant be turned back on until you are below the cap, thereby not totally destroying the vehicle and making short burst of exceeding that altitude possible but not allowing sustained flight/hovering above the cap height like people have been abusing

[BulletL 77]

Ad fog at 1.5k up, If playing long range to be effective in Blackfoot, Kaj you need to be like 2k up with fog it will encourage close range attack, something that requires 2 skilled crew member to be effective.

[Dak Commstar 139]

You'd have to ask @Unit_3397 what hes willing to try and code because that stuff ain't easy. Pricing, availability and armament are what we can easily change. Beyond that it's custom code and would take a while to do.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Dak Commstar

[FBI 195]

1 hour ago, Dak Commstar said:

You'd have to ask @Unit_3397 what hes willing to try and code because that stuff ain't easy. Pricing, availability and armament are what we can easily change. Beyond that it's custom code and would take a while to do.

Just add jets back at 100k and remove atgm misslles from them

[BulletL 77]

Nothing should be over the price of 100k, vehicles are supposed to give an advantage and those skilled enough to have mastered them gain a superior advantage. Jets and air support play a large role in taking over certain areas and with a good pilot can give a great advantage. The real problem is air vehicles on Opfor and Blufor as they have so many players to support them. A jet on Inde is nothing in comparison to a jet on Opfor. The jet on Opfor will have the airfield secure by 10 or so players in addition to central Stratis which gives great AA vantage points such as the radio tower and other tall structures. A Jet on Inde has to combat all the Opfor/Blufor AA which is extremely difficult if you factor a number of flares the Wipeout gets. Hence why no one flys on Inde. With the top tier Launchers being so easy to obtain, making air vehicles overpriced and not worth for certain teams would mean players not using air vehicles. However, these price changes NEED to be team specific. Jets on Blufor should be as much if not less than the same on Opfor(provided you increase the price to something higher) as Blufor is generally fighting the stacked Opfor team and should definitely not be the same price as Inde as you need to factor in they actually need the Airfield. Vehicles shouldn't be edited at all. The more vehicles you add the more the game gets interesting adds new kinds of threats. I hope to see the Falcon back in at 60k or something reasonable as now there is not rearm heli.

Edited February 11, 2017 by BulletL

[FBI 195]

58 minutes ago, BulletL said:

Nothing should be over the price of 100k, vehicles are supposed to give an advantage and those skilled enough to have mastered them gain a superior advantage. Jets and air support play a large role in taking over certain areas and with a good pilot can give a great advantage. The real problem is air vehicles on Opfor and Blufor as they have so many players to support them. A jet on Inde is nothing in comparison to a jet on Opfor. The jet on Opfor will have the airfield secure by 10 or so players in addition to central Stratis which gives great AA vantage points such as the radio tower and other tall structures. A Jet on Inde has to combat all the Opfor/Blufor AA which is extremely difficult if you factor a number of flares the Wipeout gets. Hence why no one flys on Inde. With the top tier Launchers being so easy to obtain, making air vehicles overpriced and not worth for certain teams would mean players not using air vehicles. However, these price changes NEED to be team specific. Jets on Blufor should be as much if not less than the same on Opfor(provided you increase the price to something higher) as Blufor is generally fighting the stacked Opfor team and should definitely not be the same price as Inde as you need to factor in they actually need the Airfield. Vehicles shouldn't be edited at all. The more vehicles you add the more the game gets interesting adds new kinds of threats. I hope to see the Falcon back in at 60k or something reasonable as now there is not rearm heli.

The real problem is no one realises how difficult jets are to use againist infrantry, the people that complain about jets being overpowered are the people with no vehicle experience or common sense. E.g oh look opfor has a jet better get in vehicles repeatedly and die then complain about how easy jets are to use. I've said this plenty of times but it only takes 2 aa missles to kill a jet regardless if they have flares or not, you just need half a brain and good postioning to kill one. 5 sets of flares is nothing vs 2or3 people with aa launchers, i believe the reason they where removed is because too many people where complaining and leaving the server due to the 4 people who actually know how to use jets. 

Moral of the story when vsing jets play smart dont enter gunstores or vehicles.

[Adolf 42]

Remove the script which allows players to see when enemies are in the gun stores. Problem solved.

[BulletL 77]

In addition to what you said FBI, the level of difficulty to spot players who may have ghillies and are masked with so much terrain in comparison to a loud Jet which you can hear and identify from so far. You can be hiding anywhere and all you need is an average backpack or 2 well-placed AA rockets to rip apart a Jet. Imagine 3-4 players all with AA part of a nice big Opfor Squad Each with backpacks full of AA. Everyone who says I am only good at OP Jets, please join Independent with a small group, a stacked Opfor/Blufor controlling the airfield and buy a Jet. Let's see how long you last and how fast you need to rearm.

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Make the TO-199 Neophron Cheaper since it takes a Truckload more skill to use.

 

not to mention if BI Fixes CCIP and TLI 95% of the current jet pilots on the server wont know what to do.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Blue Eagle [+1 CREW]

[FBI 195]

1 hour ago, Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] said:

Make the TO-199 Neophron Cheaper since it takes a Truckload more skill to use.

 

not to mention if BI Fixes CCIP and TLI 95% of the current jet pilots on the server wont know what to do.

Lets hope they remove it in the jets dlc

[BulletL 77]

I can't wait for the Jet DLC I'm dying for some change. Hopefully, it will bring some much-needed changes to the Jets. Things from the Apex DLC are yet to be added and I'm still waiting for the Falcon to be added back in.

[FBI 195]

34 minutes ago, BulletL said:

I can't wait for the Jet DLC I'm dying for some change. Hopefully, it will bring some much-needed changes to the Jets. Things from the Apex DLC are yet to be added and I'm still waiting for the Falcon to be added back in.

The drone was a beast, only used it a few times but it was fun.

[James32 823]

The drone is balanced without the rearm Taru TBH (1 shot from a rifle can kill it since the engine has paper thin armor if you know where to shoot). I don't get why they removed both the rearm and the drone, only one of the two had to be removed to fix the OP strat but instead we have neither the fun of the drone nor the utility of the Rearm chopper Hopefully one of the two gets added back in!

The most exciting thing coming in the jets DLC to me is the advanced damage models for jets like helis have already, should help balance them too since it will mean individual systems can be damaged by AA and make them harder to fly when hit once instead of what we have now where getting hit once basically changes nothing except you can only afford to get hit once more.

 

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

im looking forward to CCIP and TLI being fixed so it doesnt break the PvP Airgame.

[BulletL 77]

Imagine if in the new DLC advanced dmg models were destroyed components would break off e.g. you flare off a missile although it explodes to your left and breaks off one wing. Another would be you do a manoeuvre and the missile explodes behind you and your flaps malfunction or the engine stops every 20 seconds. Some interesting stuff could be done. As for CCIP it wouldn't really make much of a difference imo, it probably should be removed but hey if you can't correct your aim after the first burst of 30mm you shouldn't be actively flying. As for GBUs they would make a big difference, id love to see ppl place them accurately without CCIP.

Edited February 13, 2017 by BulletL

[FBI 195]

31 minutes ago, BulletL said:

Imagine if in the new DLC advanced dmg models were destroyed components would break off e.g. you flare off a missile although it explodes to your left and breaks off one wing. Another would be you do a manoeuvre and the missile explodes behind you and your flaps malfunction or the engine stops every 20 seconds. Some interesting stuff could be done. As for CCIP it wouldn't really make much of a difference imo, it probably should be removed but hey if you can't correct your aim after the first burst of 30mm you shouldn't be actively flying. As for GBUs they would make a big difference, id love to see ppl place them accurately without CCIP.

Gbus are probably the most enjoyable armament, but with Ccip you can accurately drop them from 3km up which takes the fun out of them. There was nothing better than killing tanks with no indicator on the gpu.

[DIRTYSCRUB 41]

Quote

Jets

As you all my well know jets can completely destroy a stratis wasteland server in the hands of a good pilot, which leads to complaining and whining for the removal of jets etc. But anyone who actually flys a jet knows how hard it can be to actually avoid aa's being fired at you as jets only get 5 sets of flares, which isnt much compared to a blackfoot which gets 10 sets. Any really good jet pilot will have to use the mountains and fly very low of the ground to avoid aa fire which i've seen only 4 pilots do on the entire time i have been playing on the server, others will be shot down after they lose all their flares and wouldn't of done much to impact the server. Jets are a high risk high reward item so lets keep them like that by adding them back in but making them 100k rather than 80k so you show on the map as a HVT, another thing that can balance jets out is the removal of atgm missles throughout the jet line up. These missles are ridiculously op and can kill any kind of enemy armor in one shot from over 5km's away without them knowing. An example of this is a enemy buying aa tank just for them to have it blown up right after being purchased by a jet, with the removal of atgm missles from jets it will give aa tanks a fighting chance as the pilot will have to use the 30mm cannon to kill the aa tank from a fairly close range. The removal of atgms from jets and the price hike i feel will help balance the server out abit more in jet gameplay aswell as tank gameplay. 

I Highly agree with FBI in regards to the Wipeout. There are only 5-6 skilled pilots that can actually be useful in the Wipeout. Removing or limiting ATGM's would be a more realistic approach and also increasing the price. I'm struggling to understand the reasoning behind the removal of the Wipeout as there are only a small amount of people that can actually skillfully fly them, still the orca, blackfoot and even mortars have not been removed due to this so called "spamming". It honestly isn't that hard for an opposing team to take down a Jet, it's just that strategic game play is something bluefor never has, this is why opfor is stacked at times due to teamwork, communication and better general coordination etc..

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

8 hours ago, BulletL said:

Imagine if in the new DLC advanced dmg models were destroyed components would break off e.g. you flare off a missile although it explodes to your left and breaks off one wing. Another would be you do a manoeuvre and the missile explodes behind you and your flaps malfunction or the engine stops every 20 seconds. Some interesting stuff could be done. As for CCIP it wouldn't really make much of a difference imo, it probably should be removed but hey if you can't correct your aim after the first burst of 30mm you shouldn't be actively flying. As for GBUs they would make a big difference, id love to see ppl place them accurately without CCIP.

if they want the game to be truely "Realistic" a 100 Round burst from the Wipeout would send it to a grinding halt causing it to stall

[Jüstice™. 46]

the easiest answer is the remove re arm vehicles so whatever is brought has to go back to the store to be re armed and therefore stops the douche bags that use mortars from spamming them and making it so much harder for all those player that buy jets, choppers and other attack vehicles, having an easy re arm.

 

Also a limit should be applied to how many attack vehicles can be brought in a 4 hour period...this can be applied as it use to be on Arma 2 if there can only be 4 Jets once the limit is reached then youll have to wait until restart...and a message comes up saying outta stock when you go to buy.

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Take away the targeting computer on Mortars. That way they take skill.

[DIRTYSCRUB 41]

Hey, what's wrong with building concrete walls around a mortar and using a bobcat within close proximity and spamming. Nah remove jets, to OP