Removal of "entered zone" so you don't get instantly killed by air strike and mortar.

[stv 4]

Following from the thread listed here: http://strayagaming.com.au/forums/index.php?/topic/726-removing-mortars-from-wasteland/

80% of the time the server is amazing, community, people, all of it. The other 20% is filled with endless death to 'zone-killers' (neat name, i know). Obviously there are ways to counter this before you start hating. The point I am making here is, you cannot get AA / equipment necessary to deal with the issue, if the zone you need to enter will be instantly blown to bits by stepping inside it. Personally, I cannot believe the amount of people defending these types of players. Those who just sit way out in the middle of nowhere with mortars or flying around in jets hunting down zone circles. What I don't understand is the mindset and complete absurd excuse of 'It's in the game, it's not an exploit'. This is the silliest statement ever, as all exploits are obviously in the game(s). Fact is, you are abusing a mechanic.

Opinions aside lets be honest here, the majority of the players who die to this will be 'fresh spawns', and new players to the server. Who by definition have just spawned in, have a pdw-hunk-o-shits, searching for gear and guns to actually play the game. Heck, even my friends and I get stuck in the white wash that is zone-killers. You see complaints in global all the time about it.

Suggestions:

• Is it possible for you to remove the larger circle around zones or the notification after someone steps in the zone for 1 second?
• Or even better can you not just list the zone after it has been claimed for the full duration?
• If that is too crazy maybe even lower he cap time to 2 mins - This still allows people to still fly in jets and spam their bombs, thousands of bullets, and mortars... if they really feel the need to.
   

hoping you can understand my suggestions and frustrations without sounding like too much of a cynical twat, as I have heard all of this way too many times,

Steven.

[Jerry 8]

I dont believe zones should be providing feedback on enemy movements at all.

Reasons being - yes we all get that dick that drops 70k and griefs these zones or someone dropping mortars on it incessantly perched next to his ammo truck.

The lack of these zones would actually encourage greater defensive teamwork from players - thus making it more tactical

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

Here's my thoughts on this, 1: it takes no more then 30 seconds to go into a gun store buy a titan and get out and 2: jets are strong but only if used properly, I have seen countless people tell me they are easy to use and days later they can't even take off or land.

[stv 4]

19 minutes ago, Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] said:

Here's my thoughts on this, 1: it takes no more then 30 seconds to go into a gun store buy a titan and get out and 2: jets are strong but only if used properly, I have seen countless people tell me they are easy to use and days later they can't even take off or land.

I cannot fault you there, you are not wrong. But, it also takes 1 second for that giant red circle on the map to show up when someone walks into any area. Which then gets bombarded by thousands of bullets and explosions... killing everyone inside. Being able to farm an entire team of people like that is just lame. And it seems to make a lot of newer players rage quit. This screenshot looks like you, doing just that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not hating on you. You do you, that's why you bought the game. I just really don't know how you cannot see reason in what I am saying.

I know asking for fairness and balance in an online game is a challenging task, but hey, someone's gotta do it.

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

10 hours ago, stv said:

I cannot fault you there, you are not wrong. But, it also takes 1 second for that giant red circle on the map to show up when someone walks into any area. Which then gets bombarded by thousands of bullets and explosions... killing everyone inside. Being able to farm an entire team of people like that is just lame. And it seems to make a lot of newer players rage quit. This screenshot looks like you, doing just that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not hating on you. You do you, that's why you bought the game. I just really don't know how you cannot see reason in what I am saying.

I know asking for fairness and balance in an online game is a challenging task, but hey, someone's gotta do it.

I completely agree With the removal of the enemy entered the area but I also do not understand why people swarm inside 1 building when I complete my first strafe, as the 30mm rounds on the wipeout and neo penetrate every building in the game, as for that screenshot I remember that game and Opfor controlled every gun store almost all game so 40 of those kills would be from strafing gunstores and the rest killing tanks/helos/vehicles

Edited January 18, 2016 by Blue Eagle [+1 CREW]

[Ya Mum 187]

My view here.......If you want to use a Jet or whatever thats fine as they are a tactic of the game however, when people spam the area with jets like they do with mortars it becomes Un-Australian. SG is supposed to be a place where everyone can have fun not die ever minute and cop abuse when someone asks them to stop.

Ive seen players literally hit the gunstore, turn around hit the gunstore turn around, hit the gunstore and again and again and again and again and again....you get the picture.

My personal favorite what when someone spam mined the airfield and they couldn't land or take off and these "Pilots" had a massive bitch fit over it

These people dont seem to understand that if they keep doing that, the server will die because everyone cracks the shits and leaves.

Yup you're right it take only a minute or 2 to run in and grab the gear needed to take them down but thats assuming you dont have to hit the ATM first and die because the strafing runs happen every minute or 2

All im saying is enjoy the fun of spamming the map getting your hundred kills if thats what you want but it wont last for ever

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

1 minute ago, Ya Mum said:

My personal favorite what when someone spam mined the airfield and they couldn't land or take off and these "Pilots" had a massive bitch fit over it

I remember this and the reason we had a "Bitch" over it is because it was someone who intentionally swapped from independent to opfor to do it, is breaking server rules funny to you? Because what I am quoting leads me to think that

[Ya Mum 187]

The reason he swapped was because he had enough of what you lot were doing so if it were me id be thinking hmmmm maybe ill stop because my own team isnt liking me right now.

There is also a rule that some people get banned for called "for being a dick" which some people dont seem to understand either 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Ya Mum
spelling

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

You lot? What is that meant to mean?

And if by playing the game I am being a dick then I am sorry,  it is just how I play the game.

[Ya Mum 187]

If thats what you I think  mean then I guess ill just leave it at that because I really dont have the motivation to explain to you what the "being a dick" meaning is.

 

See ya on the island

Edited January 19, 2016 by Ya Mum

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

2 minutes ago, Ya Mum said:

 

See ya on the island

Just look for the swastikas and there I am.

[battesyy 4]

I find it funny because you clearly have no idea what happened Ya Mum, as Blue Eagle has mentioned, the mines were from a TEAMMATE, which lead to TEAM KILLING - not to mention the fact that by swapping teams he is technically meta-gaming, which are 2 bannable offences. We were also not happy because we were also being rammed by teammates during this period... regardless, if they have to swap teams to take us out, then there's something wrong because taking jets out isn't too difficult if you actually try rather than just swap teams and troll - as most people do. 

On another note, this is yet ANOTHER post you've changed the subject on because you don't like how people play - technically gaming is "un-australian" tbh. Nothing stops other teams from strafing our gunstores but eh, that's just my 2 cents. 

[TooMuchWasabi 6]

On 1/18/2016 at 3:53 AM, Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] said:

Here's my thoughts on this, 1: it takes no more then 30 seconds to go into a gun store buy a titan and get out and 2: jets are strong but only if used properly, I have seen countless people tell me they are easy to use and days later they can't even take off or land.

Considering that its extremely hard to buy titans because, well, they cost 5k... Jets have flares so even if you're lucky to get a titan, you're still at a massive disadvantage. 

Only reason you argue the point is because you love seeing the players in the enemy store and bombarding the store. Just like you did tonight. 
Admins please remove jets and the notification that someone is in a gun store. 

[Ya Mum 187]

Bastet 

On 19 January 2016 at 11:22 PM, battesyy said:

I find it funny because you clearly have no idea what happened Ya Mum, as Blue Eagle has mentioned, the mines were from a TEAMMATE, which lead to TEAM KILLING - not to mention the fact that by swapping teams he is technically meta-gaming, which are 2 bannable offences. We were also not happy because we were also being rammed by teammates during this period... regardless, if they have to swap teams to take us out, then there's something wrong because taking jets out isn't too difficult if you actually try rather than just swap teams and troll - as most people do. 

On another note, this is yet ANOTHER post you've changed the subject on because you don't like how people play - technically gaming is "un-australian" tbh. Nothing stops other teams from strafing our gunstores but eh, that's just my 2 cents. 

I know exactly what happened and as I said if you care to re read my post, was that EVEN YOUR OWN TEAM MATES had enough of what you lot were doing and wanted you to stop. Take the hint in other words.

Bottom line guys if these people want to spend all day bullying the other players like they were/are bullied at school then that's fine let them go and hats off to them being able to fly a jet that well and I mean that. I've tried several times to fly and the mountain wins everytime.

It annoys me when it happens but if there are jets in the area, stay out of the area go find another gun store and find a vehicle to get a weapon and time you entries to the gun stores when they are busy killing a different gun stir. If you stay out of the zones they have a hard time trying to find people to kill.

battseyy you quote the offences that people should be banned for but remember the "being a dick" rule exists too....

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

11 hours ago, TooMuchWasabi said:

Considering that its extremely hard to buy titans because, well, they cost 5k... Jets have flares so even if you're lucky to get a titan, you're still at a massive disadvantage. 

Only reason you argue the point is because you love seeing the players in the enemy store and bombarding the store. Just like you did tonight. 
Admins please remove jets and the notification that someone is in a gun store. 

I have not onced said that I agree with the notification, if you read this post properly like a normal person I clearly state that I agree with the removal.

 

I'm going to go dupe some more jet ammo because it's clearly a physical object in the game making it dupable

[Blue Eagle [+1 CREW] 181]

4 hours ago, Ya Mum said:

EVEN YOUR OWN TEAM MATES

They were independent players who switched teams with the intent of trolling

[Ya Mum 187]

Either way they wanted you to stop.

[Vallenx 70]

I strongly disagree with the suggested removal of the entered zone. And no, its not because I fly jets and helicopters but because I like to snipe and travel between gun stores and pick off enemy players.  And while the jets are ridiculously annoying, I just tend to move on to somewhere different because just camping at a base is as boring as watching paint dry. Although I do understand that some people enjoy building their base up etc. And that's perfectly fine.

As for making a level playing field..

1. Decrease the amount of flares the aircraft can deploy. 
2. Make the rocket launchers more obtainable. Spawns in vehicles or cheaper at the store.
3. Increase the cost of the ammo for the planes. (If it even costs money, I actually don't even know)
4. Somehow limit the amount of planes available to use.

Something really needs to be done though.. I've seen people numerous times leave the server because they can't actually spawn in their area without being bombed out.

[stv 4]

Well, at least it seems we all agree on the main point here.

@Vallenx Although I still don't believe areas such as gun stores should flash up immediately as someone enters, I can see where you're getting at with your comment. 

The immediateness of the zone flash is one of the main reasons behind the issue, at least from my perspective (Someone who roams with 1-2 friends between various hot spots). The jets / mortars with what seems like infinite ammo have a target straight away. I also feel as though some of your suggestions such as:

1. Decrease the amount of flares the aircraft can deploy. 
2. Make the rocket launchers more obtainable. Spawns in vehicles or cheaper at the store. 

were quite good, although again, the spawns of launchers are sometimes random there still is quite a few weapons chests around the map. Not always accessible from spawns though. My only concern being not able to use any form of vehicle if spawn increases due to AT spam.

Limiting the availability of aircraft could be something really cool. Forcing the users who want to buy and use one, to actually hunt down the existing ones themselves.

 

Back to hoping the discussion brings light to those who can change these things for the better 

Edited January 26, 2016 by stv

[battesyy 4]

@Ya Mum but how is it fair when a player who is unhappy, leaves the Independent team to join the winning team to troll - purely because he's upset? (Think about that next time.) "Take the hint" As we get meta-gamed by salty people on the losing team. "bullying" banter over the internet will never be considered bullying, and I wasn't bulled nor did I do a lot of bullying myself but nonetheless it's game and the internet, life will move on. 
Ofc it's harder to find people not in zones, but it's also not impossible - as with map knowledge people become predictable. 
 

@Vallenxand @stv 
The only slightly overpowered thing on the server is Air to Ground missiles, jets don't have many flares - you can tell me I'm wrong all you want but they simply do not. The only reason it seems like they have a lot is because we REARM and there's only one place on the entire map you can do that - the airfield. And before you go "but you just stack OPFOR so you always have control of the airfield" - we've taken it as inde before and had the same result but in the end, that is the solution to your problem TAKE THE AIRFIELD. 

I don't think it would be possible, without a great amount of coding to be able to limit the number of available aircraft, but not only would that be lame for jet users as they aren't really obtainable if you're shot out or "Crash land" as you would in a helicopter, but the damage models that currently stand on the server don't allow for vehicle recovery as such. 

[IsaacPancakes 1]

In regard to STV's original post, I dont think removing gunstore vacancy signs would be good for gameplay.  They keep the game urgent and goal oriented, creating both a sense of ownership while you occupy them and the sense of threat knowing enemies are holding a weapons cache.

Gunstores are notorious locations, being in them is dangerous. They are hardpoints that create good King of the hill type gameplay. What they are not is a candyland of gear that everyone can frolic through holding hands. If we all expected to be able to buy any gear we want and walk out unscathed why bother with them at all, why not spawn geared. If it wasn't a mortar or a jet it would be an indie camping with a rifle, they are dangerous all the time.

Also , the stores aren't the only source of gear, you can just shoot a sniper in the back, there are heaps of predictable sniper locations. Its like farming mobs.

And picking up on some other points made in the thread:

The real problem is teambalance.  Veteran team based players choose Opfor and veteran solo/small group players play indie, but indie doesn't get the inertia of opfor without shared beacons.  A look at the score board any time of day will confirm that.

Ideally opfor/blufor would be numbers and skill balanced, with indie as wildcard factors.  Then you would see Blufor leveraging their shared beacons, gunstores changing hands and areas becoming no-fly zones which would slowly spread as players arm up with AA and move out from them, eventually denying safe access to the runway.

Regarding mortars, they have a 4km range limit, you can find it every time within 5 minutes from the air. If its in a gunstore then hit it from the air or buy a mortar from a gunstore thats out of its range and hit it back. Most of the time unless they make a fortification for the ammo truck you can see the top of it and still hit it with a titan.

I think the gameplay mechanics as they stand are fine.  Taking airfield gunstore and holding the runway to support your CAS is legitimate high level team gameplay.  Sending out a kill squad to destroy a mortar you've identified, guiding them in for an ambush, also awesome mission oriented gameplay.  Just sitting on the hill east of the south end of the runway with AT waiting for the jet to land will get you accolades.

Still, I'll concede that it can be tough, but its legitimate hardship that experience, tactics, and intel can overcome.  If you use all the tools at your disposal you can always come up with a solution.
 

[Vallenx 70]

20 hours ago, battesyy said:

TAKE THE AIRFIELD. 

100% agree with this.

[Unit_3397 712]

On 18 January 2016 at 11:00 PM, stv said:

I cannot fault you there, you are not wrong. But, it also takes 1 second for that giant red circle on the map to show up when someone walks into any area. Which then gets bombarded by thousands of bullets and explosions... killing everyone inside. Being able to farm an entire team of people like that is just lame. And it seems to make a lot of newer players rage quit. This screenshot looks like you, doing just that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not hating on you. You do you, that's why you bought the game. I just really don't know how you cannot see reason in what I am saying.

I know asking for fairness and balance in an online game is a challenging task, but hey, someone's gotta do it.

Woo second ? Nice job eagle 

[LAZYSHOT 49]

i totally agree with jerrys comments. camping gunstore waiting for it to light up for easy kills is lame.go buy a drone and put some effort in looking for your enemy

get rid of zoned areas.ill supply the tissues

[Unit_3397 712]

2 hours ago, LAZYSHOT said:

i totally agree with jerrys comments. camping gunstore waiting for it to light up for easy kills is lame.go buy a drone and put some effort in looking for your enemy

get rid of zoned areas.ill supply the tissues

Hi Lazyshot,

I'm pretty open to the idea of removing radius messages as i seek a more hardcore setting. So ill be defending the right to camp stores.

People often operate in groups using UAV's or even just sight peeps and relay that information to the pilot, as i do; and from my prospective, it doesn't matter who camps (flyby's and strafes) the store, vehicle or not, its strategic. I myself can sometimes be found camping the Airfield, be it in the air or on foot.

As for drones, well, using a drone we can still achieve this. We just have to rearm more frequently, plus unlike the jet, drones have thermals; so careful what ya wish for  

Ill just provide some generalized tips for taking em out here:

• Ram the jet on the runway be it take off or landing to rearm 
• Camp the ammo truck
• Think strategically, (Jets up in the air, means if he/she is high enough, they will see my Radar lockon, better jump out. )
• Complete the ever growing AI missions from updates and get access to explosives crates. (there's plenty lying around these days)
• The Biggest Tip I can give, is team up and take over the Airfield. I'm more than happy to challenge enemies of OPFOR for it >:D 

 

 

Finally in the 'camping of stores' defence, I take this time to note that Tiggati has stated in the rules for wasteland, camping gun, vehicle or general stores is not breaking rules. Feel free to take a gander. Wasteland Regulations

End game, If you are growing tired of the jets, team up and overtake the runway and its gunstore. Just know if your not opfor, ill be coming for ya :3 ... maybe.

 

Regards.

Unit_3397.