CAS and UAV

[Donner_Fotze 7]

Hi guys, Just wanting to Get your thoughts on my idea.
 

In recent Weeks on playing I&A. I have found that with the UAV operator Lazing Ground Targets for CAS at the start of a new AO. Has made it too easy for the INF to take the HQ and the Tower.

My suggestion is
 

• UAV Operator can Call out Targets and make the Infantry Aware of Any armoured Threats in their area. So they Can Get an AT Team in place to Take out Said Targets or put a laze on it.
• Also would be Helpful aswell For the UAV operator To participate in side missions. (RECON) Before Sending a Team in.
• UAV operators have Free rain on calling out targets on a Defend mission and Tigs.

In my opinion UAV operators are to Assist ground force's with intel.  Because CAS and UAV Operator should be a Last line of Defence.

Cheers Donner.

[BridTheAtl 116]

3 hours ago, Donner_Fotze said:

UAV Operator can Call out Targets and make the Infantry Aware of Any armoured Threats in their area. So they Can Get an AT Team in place to Take out Said Targets or put a laze on it.

They can already do this it's just.. up to whoever is on and feels like doing it 

3 hours ago, Donner_Fotze said:

Also would be Helpful aswell For the UAV operator To participate in side missions. (RECON) Before Sending a Team in.

It's completely up to who is playing in the slot at the time and if they want to participate in side missions.
Although I've noticed a few people tagging along with darters and UGV's to try help out

3 hours ago, Donner_Fotze said:

UAV operators have Free rain on calling out targets on a Defend mission and Tigs.

You don't need to be called in when a defend mission is active. However, it's very handy if the UAV op calls out where vehicles or squads are.

 

[Nova 1779]

all of this can be done already lmao but ty for suggestion

[Donner_Fotze 7]

All I'm trying to do is stop tank rape from cas and Uav operator. Too make it a challenge. 

[Tungsten 69]

until you realize that most of the time, that its when iron-side rocks up that all the armor dies, and all the EI Squads vanish, its only when you have a good UAV op, JTAC and CAS pilot that the enemy armor dies from CAS

[Matsozetex 89]

@Tungsten Exactly, current CAS roles have seen less usage, when there is not UAV operator CAS may receive one or two lazes tops per AO as most infantry on the server will happily get killed by vehicles and make no attempt to call CAS on it. I've nearly compared it to an ethical dilemma, where you can choose to help the infantry with vehicles and risk getting a warning or a kick Or leave them to die.

What doesn't help is the change of loadouts for a lot of the armed air vehicles which may them near useless, such as the Skyfire Kajman or DARs on a blackfoot. Instead of giving everything dumb fire rockets due to "CAS Power Creep" define the roles of vehicles to a greater extent instead of blanket nerfing everything. I'll make a post of suggested vehicle loadouts later today to explore this.

[Tungsten 69]

Skyfire Kajiman useless? do i need to prove you wrong lmao.

The thing is, there are more things to call in to support infantry then just CAS, i mean look at FSG its basically indirect fire support but when CAS is up its made redundant due to faster response times and the low downtime, which is ironic cus its supposed to be the other way around. add in the fact there limited to 82mm Mortars, which is the lightest artillery available and Static AA/AT.

I honestly dont mind a nerf to the Wipeout due to its power and ease of use, the Neophron does not really need a nerf cus the Neophron is harder to use, and is more rocket pod focused anyways and we dont speak about the Buzzard CAS for a reason.

[Matsozetex 89]

I've found in most situations the a Kajman with just skyfires doesn't serve the overall playstyle that the Kajman provides, yes Skyfires can be useful in their own right for area of effect damage to an infantry squad or light vehicle, however for the main playstyle of most attack helicopters of staying at bay outside the AO letting out ATGMs, DAGRs or letting the gunner rip into enemies doesn't synchronise well with Skyfires, in that case a more acceptable weapon platform would be a hellcat or a pawnee. The Kajman should not receive any Skyfires or nothing but, it should receive skyfires along with a weapon system capable of dealing damage to more armoured targets.

The issue with FSG is caused by the same issue with CAS, no one bothers calling it in. Theoretically, mortars are used incorrectly for the circumstance, if mortars could soften a target before infantry can enter FSG could work, however regarding how mortars are used now where it require infantry approval for fire missions it makes the use of mortars limited.

Yeah with the Neophron its mostly a aircraft focused on bombing (Lazed) and rockets, and with recent nerfs to its gun it has made it more defined. However the wipeout almost seems to triumph the Neophron in all categories except for bomb size and rocket pod size, even the larger bombs on the Neophron are simply ruled out by the fact that the wipeout still carries 4 bombs despite two of them being unguided (Free bombing is accurate as heck). I wouldn't abstain from the wipeout having its two Mk 82's removed at all to be honest.

[Tungsten 69]

The idea of the Kajimans loadout is to deal with AA threats and heavy armor from long range then move in to provide overhead support once the AA threats are neutralized, hence the skyfires, then once the area is cleared pick up the troops and go.

The idea behind a Kajiman with 4 Skyfire lolpods would be long term overhead support with the ability to strike soft armor and empacements

[decibel_spl 76]

Idk, but I think the whole point of this thread was to say (and this is just my $0.02) that UAV should not be able to call in air support. In my opinion, air support needs to be called in by forces on the ground cause a UAV sitting up at 2 clicks won't be able to determine threats and proximity of friendlies as well as a soldier on the ground. Like said before, it also would prevent the case in which the AO is the other side of the map and the UAV and jet bolt it over there and take out the AAA when a single soldier hasn't even entered the AO.... That's a bit ridiculous.

For those people  saying that it is half the UAV's role to call in CAS, I believe the UAV needs a rework in how it is operated - it needs to focus on supporting the ground forces by means of the UGV's, autonomous guns, intelligence and support assets. There should be some more options as to how you can do this, a reallllllly good idea would be to somehow enable the UAV op to use the new drones from the IDAP faction - medical, resupply, etc. Now that would be awesome

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by decibel_spl

[Nova 1779]

2 hours ago, decibel_spl said:

Idk, but I think the whole point of this thread was to say (and this is just my $0.02) that UAV should not be able to call in air support. In my opinion, air support needs to be called in by forces on the ground cause a UAV sitting up at 2 clicks won't be able to determine threats and proximity of friendlies as well as a soldier on the ground. Like said before, it also would prevent the case in which the AO is the other side of the map and the UAV and jet bolt it over there and take out the AAA when a single soldier hasn't even entered the AO.... That's a bit ridiculous.

For those people  saying that it is half the UAV's role to call in CAS, I believe the UAV needs a rework in how it is operated - it needs to focus on supporting the ground forces by means of the UGV's, autonomous guns, intelligence and support assets. There should be some more options as to how you can do this, a reallllllly good idea would be to somehow enable the UAV op to use the new drones from the IDAP faction - medical, resupply, etc. Now that would be awesome

i agree UAV should not be able to call in cas but that makes the role somewhat obsolete. maybe it can use darters to laze but not the sentinel or the greyhawk. idk. the UAV op can already use the IDAP drones. ive seen people using it alot to resupply AT troopers with missiles.

[decibel_spl 76]

On 9/26/2017 at 2:41 PM, InfamousNova said:

i agree UAV should not be able to call in cas but that makes the role somewhat obsolete. maybe it can use darters to laze but not the sentinel or the greyhawk. idk. the UAV op can already use the IDAP drones. ive seen people using it alot to resupply AT troopers with missiles.

I agree, removing the laser designator from the UAVs would be the perfect solution to half that problem cause you gotta actually go out there with the darter or fly it out there yourself, plus the darter is rather redundant at anything over a 500m altitude (the whole point is to use it close to the ground). Leave the GBUs on the fixed wing UAVs and use it for secondary ATG bombing and reconnaissance. They can use the IDAP drones? I thought they weren't able to use them due to being a different faction :/ That's good to know. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by decibel_spl

[Tungsten 69]

you can use the idap drones if you are the one setting them up, you just hack them after you set them up and there yours to use

[Abraham Sterling 27]

As said maybe about 10 times in this it really is up to the UAV operator on what he will do and with the new idap drones they should have better things to do that can help infantry.

[Tracuer 92]

Could I maybe make a suggestion?

I know there are a few people who will agree with me that the main problem here isn't who calls CAS in. The root problem is when CAS isn't needing to be called in, it destroys everything; and when it needs to be called in, it is either doing nothing or destroying everything.

My suggestion, and I know of a few voices who will back me up, is to remove the fixed-wing CAS all together. Now I'm not saying we should remove fixed wing AA, we can have two of them instead of one and allow more enemy aircraft to appear more often. To compensate for the lost fixed-wing CAS, I believe it will be more effective to replace it with a Littlebird/Hellcat/Orca light CAS. This then removes the trouble of CAS destroying everything before tanks can get there, it allows the AAA in missions to be a threat that pilots have to be weary of, adding a little more challenge; and gives the tanks a proper position in the server, to destroy the other tanks. I'll leave it up to the admins if they want to remove the  rules for calling it in or not, but I believe having the light CAS be given free reign to engage (so long as it's not friendlies) will allow it to support the infantry effectively and swiftly. However, this will need to be watched, and players that TK too often in the CAS helos will probably have to be temporarily blacklisted from that role (or just a general TK ban, whatever is easier).

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Nova 1779]

40 minutes ago, Tracuer said:

My suggestion, and I know of a few voices who will back me up, is to remove the fixed-wing CAS all together.

lmao yea i suggested this couple of weeks ago. dont remember what the consensus was but i am all for this. light cas could work. or could be a rotation of the light cas to blackfoot or kajman.

[Goose_ 31]

9 hours ago, InfamousNova said:

lmao yea i suggested this couple of weeks ago. dont remember what the consensus was but i am all for this. light cas could work. or could be a rotation of the light cas to blackfoot or kajman.

Downgrading to a light cas would definitely make AA a much bigger target for infantry 

 

[Tungsten 69]

On 10/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, InfamousNova said:

lmao yea i suggested this couple of weeks ago. dont remember what the consensus was but i am all for this. light cas could work. or could be a rotation of the light cas to blackfoot or kajman.

I think switching from Attack Jets to Gunships would be a good change for the server, they are more interactive with the infantry and do need to be protected from AA threats a lot more.

hopefully we can get a rotation for the Blackfoot, Kajiman and Blackfish Gunship

[Fitz 1239]

Might try it out on the weekend if I got time 

[Farqman 86]

How come the Falcon has been Nerfed? Been playing as UAV operator a fair bit and having dumb fire rockets on a heli that is super twitchy can be a pain. Would it be possible to either have it fully armed, or a few lock ons at least?

 

Also an issue that seems to be popping up a bit is that the speed brake seems to be deployed (vertical fins) on the UCAV and spamming my button won't fix it? 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Farqman

[Fitz 1239]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:13 PM, Farqman said:

How come the Falcon has been Nerfed? Been playing as UAV operator a fair bit and having dumb fire rockets on a heli that is super twitchy can be a pain. Would it be possible to either have it fully armed, or a few lock ons at least?

Almost all ATGMs and guided rockets have been removed from friendly CAS assets. The falcon is intended to be more of a recon drone with that loadout. 

On 11/21/2017 at 4:13 PM, Farqman said:

Also an issue that seems to be popping up a bit is that the speed brake seems to be deployed (vertical fins) on the UCAV and spamming my button won't fix it? 

Not sure what would be causing that, have you checked your control bindings?

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Fitz

[Farqman 86]

I have the speed brake bound to 'X' on the keyboard.

I'll be home in the morning and will double check it.