Class Restrictions

[Yeet 193]

Recently I've started playing infantry a hell of a lot more, but a few of the classes either don't restrict, or restrict very weird weapons:

A good example of this is the Sniper Class, for some reason, all of the 9mm weapons are restricted, I'd love to see these unrestricted so that you can grab both a LQC and CQC weapon (as some snipers do in the real world) and swap them out as you head into towns and start clearing buildings.

Also, MG Gunners have a weird restriction on the HEX Navid, I think that one is self explanatory..

Edit: If anyone else wants to talk about class perms/restrictions they like/don't like, maybe chuck a reply in down below.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Yeet

[decibel_spl 76]

That's an easy  one, here's a few off the top of my head:

• Restricting anything over 7.62mm caliber rifles (Or to be more specific, any DMR - Mar10, Cyrus, etc) to marksman only
• NO WOOKIE SUITS for anyone not a sniper or in recon
• Probably very unpopular but restrict viper gear in general??
• Restricting RPGs from roles that shouldn't be using them. - i.e. Medics, engineers, autorifleman. 

[BridTheAtl 116]

43 minutes ago, Yeet said:

A good example of this is the Sniper Class, for some reason, all of the 9mm weapons are restricted, I'd love to see these unrestricted so that you can grab both a LQC and CQC weapon (as some snipers do in the real world) and swap them out as you head into towns and start clearing buildings.

The server was once like this but unfortunately people were only using the CQC weapons

[Yeet 193]

Just now, BridTheAtl said:

The server was once like this but unfortunately people were only using the CQC weapons

I can't honestly remember this, maybe it's because I was constantly in helicopters.

But if thats what they want to use, why not let them? They'll just be useless now (seeming that enemies now have alot more health than they did a couple years back (from what I can tell)).

[Nova 1779]

I&A milsim time?

[SkylerBB 26]

I agree the 9mm should be able to be used for the snipers. you never know when enemy squad is going to come up on your location, would be good to have it incase as trying to shot the rifle short range is such a bad idea XD

[Slep. 279]

2 hours ago, SkylerBB said:

I agree the 9mm should be able to be used for the snipers. you never know when enemy squad is going to come up on your location, would be good to have it incase as trying to shot the rifle short range is such a bad idea XD

Why not have a spotter 

[Zombine45 177]

11 hours ago, decibel_spl said:

Probably very unpopular but restrict viper gear in general?

I completely agree with this, NATO has gear that fulfills the same function.

11 hours ago, decibel_spl said:

Restricting RPGs from roles that shouldn't be using them. - i.e. Medics, engineers, autorifleman. 

While i agree with this in concept, wouldn't that restrict RPGs to only Rifleman (AT) and Missile Specialists? These classes already get access to missile launchers and i feel like RPG's would disappear all together. I for one like having an ace in the hole as my engineer, however i only carry the RPG loaded with no spare rockets.

[decibel_spl 76]

13 hours ago, Zombine45 said:

While i agree with this in concept, wouldn't that restrict RPGs to only Rifleman (AT) and Missile Specialists? These classes already get access to missile launchers and i feel like RPG's would disappear all together. I for one like having an ace in the hole as my engineer, however i only carry the RPG loaded with no spare rockets.

Well I suppose the engineer could, it was just mainly to stop the idiot medics with a backpack full of RPGs rather than FAKs. The autorifleman part was because they already need bag space for their belts, so it's not practical. The other roles are flexible enough to be switched around to include an RPG in the loadout, while still being practical. 

I could probably add to that list - the JTAC and Marksman, because well... they shouldn't need an rpg. Also if snipers can, that's just stupid for obvious reasons.

Edited July 8, 2018 by decibel_spl

[SkylerBB 26]

21 hours ago, Slep. said:

Why not have a spotter 

This is I&A XD Sniper/spotter is a super rare thing to see as requires teamwork and for people to play more serious. 

I know we used to have a sniper/spotter job team but think the spotter was removed seems it wasn't used correctly. 

Only time I ever see this happen is with the vets working as a team and preplanning each others roles to be an effective team. though doesn't happen much also.....

Though even with sniper/spotter teams in RL they both still had 9mms even if the spotter had a standard assault rifle as primary.

So....9mm pistol plz

 

4 hours ago, decibel_spl said:

Well I suppose the engineer could, it was just mainly to stop the idiot medics with a backpack full of RPGs rather than FAKs. The autorifleman part was because they already need bag space for their belts, so it's not practical. The other roles are flexible enough to be switched around to include an RPG in the loadout, while still being practical. 

I could probably add to that list - the JTAC and Marksman, because well... they shouldn't need an rpg. Also if snipers can, that's just stupid for obvious reasons.

Medic/sniper yea sure remove even RPGs from them. I think that would be good as they should be healing/snipering people and have the correct supplies not blowing shit up with RPGs...

autorifleman/marksmen I don't see why they can't have an RPG. if they are stupid enough to fill up a backpack with RPGs and not enough ammo, then they need to learn the hard way that they ****ed up. 
Otherwise able to somehow limit them to 2 rockets?

[Slep. 279]

5 minutes ago, SkylerBB said:

This is I&A XD Sniper/spotter is a super rare thing to see as requires teamwork and for people to play more serious. 

I thought I&A was a cooperative gamemode where you had to work as a team to get shit done...

Also, maybe by having a spotter you can work more effectively as a sniper, and also teach some new people how to play if thats your thing.

[Fitz 1239]

I went through the restrictions today in preparation for the next update. Here's how I set it:

On 07/07/2018 at 1:17 PM, Yeet said:

A good example of this is the Sniper Class, for some reason, all of the 9mm weapons are restricted, I'd love to see these unrestricted so that you can grab both a LQC and CQC weapon (as some snipers do in the real world) and swap them out as you head into towns and start clearing buildings.

Snipers can use SMGs/handguns/sniper rifles/basic launchers.

On 07/07/2018 at 1:17 PM, Yeet said:

Also, MG Gunners have a restriction a weird restriction on the HEX Navid, I think that one is self explanatory..

Fixed.

On 07/07/2018 at 1:29 PM, decibel_spl said:

Restricting anything over 7.62mm caliber rifles (Or to be more specific, any DMR - Mar10, Cyrus, etc) to marksman only

Cyrus, Mar10 and ASP-1 restricted to marksman/sharpshooter only.

On 07/07/2018 at 1:29 PM, decibel_spl said:

NO WOOKIE SUITS for anyone not a sniper or in recon

No.

On 07/07/2018 at 1:29 PM, decibel_spl said:

Probably very unpopular but restrict viper gear in general??

Yes.

On 07/07/2018 at 1:29 PM, decibel_spl said:

Restricting RPGs from roles that shouldn't be using them. - i.e. Medics, engineers, autorifleman. 

No.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Fitz

[Ptarmigann 5]

It's rather strange that stuff like the MX SW, CAR and the SPAR are available for all classes, essentially giving everyone access to decent LMGs. And now with the removal of CSAT gear that often boast high carrying values as well as good ballistic protection, it's often hard to carry enough ammo for MMGs (the two from the Marksman DLC) into battle without having to get an RTB very frequently. This has also led to an influx of ghillie suit users, since it has decent carrying value as well as ballistic protection and hides the massive backpacks you have to use in order to carry a viable amount of ammunition into battle. 

Just a side note that I do carry a launcher and at least 6-7 rockets (excluding the one in the tube) into battle, so I'm not sure if people that choose to not carry anti-armour weapons have the same issue. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Ptarmigann
Fixed typo

[pkisbest 198]

There’s your issue. Your carrying an RPG with 6-7 rockets. As an MMG gunner you should only be carrying a few FAKs for yourself, maybe grenades and a bunch of boxes of ammo.

 

Unless I’m an AT Gunner I will usually just carry an RPG42 with a single round in the tube and that’s it. Doesn’t affect my carry weight.

[Ptarmigann 5]

2 minutes ago, pkisbest said:

There’s your issue. Your carrying an RPG with 6-7 rockets. As an MMG gunner you should only be carrying a few FAKs for yourself, maybe grenades and a bunch of boxes of ammo.

 

Unless I’m an AT Gunner I will usually just carry an RPG42 with a single round in the tube and that’s it. Doesn’t affect my carry weight.

Here's a thing I've noticed from my time playing: there are usually only two AT specialists present at almost any given moment, and other roles choose to simply to not carry rockets. So in the unfortunate event that one or both of them would go down/run out of rockets (which happens rather frequently especially in base defense) there would be nobody to take out armour and we would simply be wiped out. Not to mention that enemies can parachute armour and other vehicles directly into the AO/near the base that will ruin any perfect setup without an AT to take it down. 

[pkisbest 198]

So you want to carry 7 RPG rounds and carry a shit tonne of Boxes of Ammo? You would need a mod or something to do that. It’s not something that can be done server side (to my knowledge).

 

During prime time there usually plenty of tanks and other AT assets to destroy armour.

 

If there isn’t, switch over yourself. If there is truly no AT, then the tank should be there stil.

[Fitz 1239]

6 hours ago, Ptarmigann said:

It's rather strange that stuff like the MX SW, CAR and the SPAR are available for all classes

They should be limited to Autorifleman only. Will fix for next restart.

[Ptarmigann 5]

1 hour ago, pkisbest said:

So you want to carry 7 RPG rounds and carry a shit tonne of Boxes of Ammo? You would need a mod or something to do that. It’s not something that can be done server side (to my knowledge).

 

During prime time there usually plenty of tanks and other AT assets to destroy armour.

 

If there isn’t, switch over yourself. If there is truly no AT, then the tank should be there stil.

It can easily be done before because CSAT gear had a lot of everything and really helped fill out the role of AT even if you're not an AT specialist yourself. But now CSAT gears are removed you can still carry about 6 rockets but with roughly 3 crates of ammo rather than 6-7, meaning that you would run out really quickly half way into the fighting. I&A has always been about the power fantasy and being a one man army as you go up against a whole platoon with your squad, trying to force it into a milsim by removing the ability to carry enough firepower to even realistically provide enough support is just trying to contradict what this gamemode started out as. 

 

I've been talking to a lot of people these few days and almost everyone thought that the change is really just uncalled for. Coupled with the new weapon restrictions it really doesn't achieve anything but give people more mixed feelings. Switching class is... I dunno, not really a viable option? Your squad and everyone around you will get rolled by that one armour as you take your time to respawn, get a launcher and fly back to the AO. Unlike medics nobody really want to fill the AT roles because of the aforementioned issue where you must carry rockets, especially now that we're not only carrying less but also have to take more damage from CSAT gear removal. Moving the MAAW to AT only does not give me the incentives to play AT either, this change just felt like a strange step in a direction that caters only to a very small amount of players (people that actually come to the forum and ask for these kind of things while people that enjoy the gamemode would only give minor feedbacks like tweaks and QoL improvements). 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Ptarmigann
Fixed typo

[SkylerBB 26]

11 minutes ago, Fitz said:

They should be limited to Autorifleman only. Will fix for next restart.

*crys* MX SW is my fav weapon as AT so I can long range AT and shot. Sads! Im sure i'll figure something out. 

 

1 hour ago, pkisbest said:

If there isn’t, switch over yourself. If there is truly no AT, then the tank should be there stil.

^^^^ I do that kinda thing a lot. if im not AT/mortor/ironside and it is needed that is what people should be doing. your little RPGs are not as good as the weapons the other roles have. 6-7rpgs don't always kill what these roles can. just easier to change to them

[Nova 1779]

17 minutes ago, Ptarmigann said:

I&A has always been about the power fantasy and being a one man army as you go up against a whole platoon with your squad, trying to force it into a milsim by removing the ability to carry enough firepower to even realistically provide enough support is just trying to contradict what this gamemode started out as. 

this

I&A is not and never will be milsim. i dont get why people want it to be

[Ptarmigann 5]

9 minutes ago, SkylerBB said:

*crys* MX SW is my fav weapon as AT so I can long range AT and shot. Sads! Im sure i'll figure something out. 

This here is exactly what I mean, people loved flexibility while having great fashion to go with it. Now everyone has to rock full ghillie to hide the hideously large backpack so they can still carry enough rounds for their favourite weapons into combat. Doing this essentially created a meta that everyone wants to go with to enjoy the server like they did before. 

[Fitz 1239]

@Ptarmigann I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Can you point me to which CSAT uniform supports higher loads over a NATO one? They have higher ballistic protection and weight sure, but that's it. It's the same with the Ghillies and pilot coveralls and every other uniform with a CSAT counterpart. If stamina was enabled or if you had it enabled yourself in the options menu, you definitely wouldn't be using CSAT gear because it weighs a lot.

Quote

People complain about lots of things and then when you fix those issues, other people complain about the fixes. Can't win.

You (the players) can't complain about the AOs being too easy and then go running around in CSAT gear with crazy high ballistic protection. 

50 minutes ago, Ptarmigann said:

Moving the MAAW to AT only does not give me the incentives to play AT either

The MAAW with the rangefinder was limited to AT only because it's too easy to use.

The 3 higher calibre marksman rifles were restricted because they are usually one shot kills. 

I haven't heard anything negative about removing CSAT gear from anyone except you, heaps of people say that if you wear it, you're going to get teamkilled, or that people wearing it are "idiots" or something similar.

[Ptarmigann 5]

22 minutes ago, Fitz said:

@Ptarmigann I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Can you point me to which CSAT uniform supports higher loads over a NATO one? They have higher ballistic protection and weight sure, but that's it. It's the same with the Ghillies and pilot coveralls and every other uniform with a CSAT counterpart. If stamina was enabled or if you had it enabled yourself in the options menu, you definitely wouldn't be using CSAT gear because it weighs a lot.

I was always carrying an additional mag or two (for my LMG) along with maybe some mags for my pistol when I run CSAT gear, have no idea what's up with that but I know that my carrying went down when I switched to NATO gear. Ballistic protection on CSAT gear is fairly high and gave me the ability to take an additional shot before going down, but it mostly came from the vests that made people into walking tanks. 

Quote

You (the players) can't complain about the AOs being too easy and then go running around in CSAT gear with crazy high ballistic protection. 

The AOs are indeed harder now because CSAT gear got removed, actually gets people to stick together a bit more. I've never really had a problem with the difficulty of the gamemode, just that it no longer gives me the feeling of being a force to be reckoned with for some reason. 

Quote

The 3 higher calibre marksman rifles were restricted because they are usually one shot kills. 

This I'm fine with, seeing everyone run around with railguns is a bit absurd. But restricting stuff like normal assault & marksman rifles for autorifleman while still letting most other classes use rifles with grenade launchers (aren't they suppose to be grenadier only?) just seems quite odd. And I think some of the longer guns are restricted on a few classes too? Not quite sure on that one since I don't play a lot of classes. 

Quote

I haven't heard anything negative about removing CSAT gear from anyone except you, heaps of people say that if you wear it, you're going to get teamkilled, or that people wearing it are "idiots" or something similar.

I've heard about people turning off markers that show friendlies and people in your platoon shooting CSAT guys as well, but it has only ever been spoken and nobody that I knew of wearing CSAT gear was involved in any friendly fire incidents. This I never really understood why as people should be able to tell that guys in CSAT gear are friendly because they're moving with friendlies/have a blue polygon along with a tag that tells you they're friendly when you move your aim over them. Dunno what's up with guys that call people wearing CSAT idiots either. 

I've seen and heard people ranting in voice chat and side chat about the restrictions and removal of CSAT gear for quite a few days after the change. It has mostly quiet down now but whenever the topic is brought up people just start talking about how they can no longer carry enough stuff and things along those lines. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Ptarmigann

[Yeet 193]

1 hour ago, Ptarmigann said:

I've seen and heard people ranting in voice chat and side chat about the restrictions and removal of CSAT gear for quite a few days after the change. It has mostly quiet down now but whenever the topic is brought up people just start talking about how they can no longer carry enough stuff and things along those lines. 

I haven't? The CSAT gear provided more ballistic protection.. Thats it.. It also made you a target for me to shoot at because your dressed like the ****en enemy!

If your so hurt that you can no longer hold enough RPG's for an entire AT Team go have fun somewhere else.

Whenever I play Infantry, I go sharpshooter, take a SPAR-17, normal fatigues or Starvou fatigues, Kerry Rig and a Leg Strap/Pouch. I get killed in about 1-3 shots.. Doesn't mean I can't storm a town and decimate every enemy in sight though.. If your good enough it doesn't matter what you have. 

(Side note: I don't think its fair to let 1 guy put on a specific loadout, then be able to wipe out majority of hostiles leaving the rest of the people within the AO to shoot at snakes..)

1 hour ago, Ptarmigann said:

Ballistic protection on CSAT gear is fairly high and gave me the ability to take an additional shot before going down

Maybe don't get shot so much..

 

1 hour ago, Ptarmigann said:

but it mostly came from the vests that made people into walking tanks. 

Sweet, use the Carrier Special Rig, alot of carry space and the most tanky vest. Best part is: it isn't a CSAT vest!

 

1 hour ago, Ptarmigann said:

But restricting stuff like normal assault & marksman rifles for autorifleman

A U T O R I F L E M A N, I wonder what weapon system an A U T O R I F L E M A N is supposed to use? Maybe not a "normal assault" rifle or a "marksman" rifle..

 

- I understand you want to come on and just destroy AI (or so it seems) but you've got to take into account that the providers of this server have to let the other patrons also have fun.. 

[Zombine45 177]

All i'm seeing in this thread are people complaining that they can't be a one man army, ghille-LMG-medic with a missile launcher, the server has class roles for a reason, if you're worried that there's going to be a lot of tanks, play AT then(You can see how many AT players are on BEFORE you join the match).

I can comfortably fit 9 magazines for a primary and 4 AT rockets into a single soldier without using any stupidly large backpacks or clothing(All NATO). If you find yourself running out of ammo during an AO then go to the supply depot, it exists for a reason, or bring a vehicle with spare ammo in it.

Now i can understand people want to come and slaughter AI in droves, but that's fun for about 2 minutes and it ruins the experience for people who want to play a little more tactically. (I don't mean milsim, i mean people who want to come on and play an engineer or play an autorifleman ect, people who want to work together with the TEAM which they're a part of) Also if you play arma to be a one man army then why did you buy arma? That isn't the kind of playstyle that arma tries to offer. There are loads of games that cater more to this playstyle.

Now some people are saying that these changes were some knee-jerk reaction to a recent uproar, but it isn't. These changes have been long requested and only now that they've been implemented have people decided to come and provide input, there was plenty of chance to put your argument in, for literally months. The I&A forums don't get posts often so you might want to pay attention when people actually do post.

@Ptarmigann I couldn't quote all the parts specifically because there's a lot of different posts but this mostly pertains to things you've mentioned.